View Full Version : Motorcyclist killed on Dulwich road?
Yesterday there was a very nasty accident between a van and motorbike on Dulwich road (near the corner with Rhymer Street). Police taped off the area and had their photographers out - so I assume that at the very least it was a serious injury - from the look of the mangled motorbike maybe worse? :(
Dulwich road is one of the few main roads around here without any traffic calming at all as far as I can see.... :mad:
Dulwich road is one of the few main roads around here without any traffic calming at all as far as I can see.... :mad:
Railton doesn't either, and people regularly drive down it at 60mph. :mad:
Railton doesn't either, and people regularly drive down it at 60mph. :mad:
As soon as my work email's back up I'm creating a little petition for speed cameras on both.
snowy_again
28-04-2008, 10:59
The policemen (at the time) told me he wasn't killed, just 'had a few fractures' but would be fine. His bike was properly mashed up at the front, with the wheel compressed into the frame and bits of it scattered across the junction.
It meant that the street was empty for 2 hours on a sunny Saturday morning, with no traffic at all. Is that the sort of 'calming measures' you're talking about?! Does it need speed cameras or those signs that flash when you approach 30?
detective-boy
28-04-2008, 11:16
As soon as my work email's back up I'm creating a little petition for speed cameras on both.
How do you know that speed was a factor in this collision? Or are you making the (usual) assumption that motorcyle = speeding / maniac / at fault? :confused:
How do you know that speed was a factor in this collision? Or are you making the (usual) assumption that motorcyle = speeding / maniac / at fault? :confused:
Well there is a serious general problem on both Dulwich & Railton road of people speeding like loons on the straight bits.
Plus the position of the motorbike under the van indicated that the motorbike was going straight, and the van had turned into it. So probably the motorbike going too fast combined with the van driver not paying enough attention I'd guess.
Anyway I've set up a petition here and will get going with trying to find out the process for actually sorting out the road. http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/dulwichrailtonroads
detective-boy
28-04-2008, 11:42
Plus the position of the motorbike under the van indicated that the motorbike was going straight, and the van had turned into it. So probably the motorbike going too fast combined with the van driver not paying enough attention I'd guess.
So assumption then .... :rolleyes:
Railton Road has many drivers who could not care about the Highway Code let alone obeying it. The amount of times I have been nearly tboned by idiot car drivers crossing Railton is beyond my counting abilities.
Well there is a serious general problem on both Dulwich & Railton road of people speeding like loons on the straight bits.
Yep. People race down Dulwich Rd and often don't stop on the zebra crossings. Someone's gonna get killed soon, I've had a few close encounters on the zebra crossing by Brixton Water Lane.
So assumption then .... :rolleyes:
Maybe he knows from experience that people often speed down Dulwich Rd. Maybe he lives on or near Dulwich Rd? Maybe you're making assumptions.
I do know that once again someone was seriously hurt in a road accident within yards of my home. I saw the mess when I was out running that morning, and that biker had a very close call - I'm suprised he's still alive tbh.
So please can we lose the fucking pointscoring.
How do you know that speed was a factor in this collision? Or are you making the (usual) assumption that motorcyle = speeding / maniac / at fault? :confused:
I lived between the two roads for years - it's a justifiable assumption to make tbf. But yes,an assumption DB ;)
The speed at which traffic uses those roads at all times of the day is absurd (esspecially the speed that the No.3 gets to be piloited down Duwich Rd) and makes emerging from the side streets onto either road a hazardous affair in any vehicle - esspecially bikes.
(actually, I always noted that your ex collegues appeared to be among some of the worst offenders on Railton Rd - abit, under the disclaimer of the blue lights :p)
ExtraRefined
28-04-2008, 14:50
As soon as my work email's back up I'm creating a little petition for speed cameras on both.
What makes you think the threat of a £60 fine will dissuade people from speeding, when the possibility of death or serious injury won't?
What makes you think the threat of a £60 fine will dissuade people from speeding, when the possibility of death or serious injury won't?
Bizarrely it seems to be the case. I cycle down Brixton road three days a week or so and the speed cameras there have a visible impact on the speeds there.
If you look at this map (you'll need to zoom in) you'll see that Dulwich & Railton roads are rare in this bit of London for not having speed cameras. I suspect it's something to do with them not being TFL roads:
http://spod.cx/speedcameras.shtml
dream_girl
28-04-2008, 17:28
How do you know that speed was a factor in this collision? Or are you making the (usual) assumption that motorcyle = speeding / maniac / at fault? :confused:
My personal experience is that motorcyclists almost always go too fast - and become aggressive when challenged.
Gixxer1000
28-04-2008, 18:23
My personal experience is that motorcyclists almost always go too fast - and become aggressive when challenged.
Why is this prejudice acceptable?
dream_girl
28-04-2008, 18:28
Why is this prejudice acceptable?
Ahh - is it prejudice? Am I pre judging or have I had 35 years experience as a cyclist, motorist and pedestrian, and am now sick and tired of idiots who ride motorbikes?
Gixxer1000
28-04-2008, 18:39
Youre prejudging/stereotyping call it what you like, but it will get you arrested if you applied it to pretty much any other segment of society.
Agent Sparrow
28-04-2008, 18:44
Thing is, once you get a bad impression of a group of people, its very easy to only notice the people who confirm that bad impression (rather than all the ones who quietly don't). With all people who use the road, most are fine, but it's very easy to get focused on the ones who aren't, and generalising that behaviour to a group of road users can be a next step to that. And more generally, that is how prejudice works. :(
Re: Railton Road, do people really go down it at 60 miles an hour? I've been cycling down it regularly for about 6 months now - I've come across a few twatty drivers but never anyone speeding that much. :eek: I'm slightly worried now.
Also on the subject of Railton Road, does anyone know why there's a diversion sign where Atlantic becomes Railton? (at the bottom of Kellett Road)
Gixxer1000
28-04-2008, 18:58
Agree with all that but its the same mindset that makes someone racist/sexist etc.
gaijingirl
28-04-2008, 19:19
Also on the subject of Railton Road, does anyone know why there's a diversion sign where Atlantic becomes Railton? (at the bottom of Kellett Road)
It's for one particular bus route - can't remember which one - one of the small single deckers...
it's very confusing though ...
My personal experience is that motorcyclists almost always go too fast - and become aggressive when challenged.
Actually the only time I've been on the back of a motorbike, we were doing 130mph down the M6. :cool:
dream_girl
29-04-2008, 09:29
Agree with all that but its the same mindset that makes someone racist/sexist etc.
Ha ha - no its not - I'm about as far from a racist or a sexist as you could be. :D
My personal experience is that motorcyclists almost always go too fast - and become aggressive when challenged.
Speaking as a motoryclist myself I'd say you're about right; that's if you equate breaking the speed limit with going too fast.
One reason we get angry when challenged is that if we have an accident we are almost always the only ones hurt, and we have to pay a lot more attention than a typical car driver or pedestrian if we want to stay out of A&E.
So we tend to feel that we ought to be left to take responsibility for our safety and that of the road users we meet. We resent being criticised by people who have no idea how much skill and practice is required to ride a motorcycle in London without coming a cropper.
I suppose I should try to back up my argument with some stats. I seem to remember that one's chances of dying are 50 times higher per mile travelled on a motorbike than in a car. And that when I was a despatch rider somebody else would try to kill me with their carelessness about once an hour. Once a day I would happen across the aftermath of an accident involving a motorbike or scooter. I don't recall ever seeing anyone but the motorcyclist being attended to by paramedics.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
29-04-2008, 10:34
Youre prejudging/stereotyping call it what you like, but it will get you arrested if you applied it to pretty much any other segment of society.
That's just absolute rubbish tbh. You could categorise people on millions of grounds and not get arrested - if I slagged off goths or emos would that be a crime?
goldengraham
29-04-2008, 10:48
I think there's a massive problem with the parking bays that line the opposite side of Dulwich Road from the park. If you are a driver pulling out of any of the Poet's Corner roads it is almost impossible to see oncoming traffic coming in either direction until you are actually in the middle of the road, because the view of the main road is completely obscured by parked cars. You basically have to edge out very slowly and hope that whatever is coming can see you in good time.
Don't know if that contributed to the accident but I've had a couple of very scary moments as a result.
I think there's a massive problem with the parking bays that line the opposite side of Dulwich Road from the park. If you are a driver pulling out of any of the Poet's Corner roads it is almost impossible to see oncoming traffic coming in either direction until you are actually in the middle of the road, because the view of the main road is completely obscured by parked cars. You basically have to edge out very slowly and hope that whatever is coming can see you in good time.
Don't know if that contributed to the accident but I've had a couple of very scary moments as a result.
Probably not on this occasion since it looked to me as if they were both on Dulwich road. But you're right that the road is completely obscured.
I'd think that the chance of loads of parking bays being removed is fairly low - but at least slowing the traffic down would make it a bit safer.
So please sign my petition for speed cameras / or similar on Dulwich road.
http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/dulwichrailtonroads
So please sign my petition for speed cameras / or similar on Dulwich road.
http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/dulwichrailtonroads
Bob - will the information requested (name, e-mail, postcode) be used by the Lib Dems in any way?
snowy_again
29-04-2008, 12:13
Bob, why does the petition have to be a libdem one?
Bob, why does the petition have to be a libdem one?
I'm a Lib Dem activist.
If somebody else wants to start their own petition they're quite welcome to - but I believe that the best way to change the world for the better is through the Lib Dems - so it would be bizarre for it to not be a Lib Dem petition.
I'm quite serious about the issue though - I currently live on Dulwich road and intend to continue to live round here for years to come.
snowy_again
29-04-2008, 12:30
And i do too, and I'm also aware that people speed along that road... but (christ I'm going to say the word) shouldn't there be some consultation into what goes on rather than just leaping in with a speed camera... nice flashing lights going off all night (which i used to get from the photography studio), plus extra noise etc.
And i do too, and I'm also aware that people speed along that road... but (christ I'm going to say the word) shouldn't there be some consultation into what goes on rather than just leaping in with a speed camera... nice flashing lights going off all night (which i used to get from the photography studio), plus extra noise etc.
Fair point on consultation. Which is why the text reads:
This petition aims to get speed cameras (and / or other appropriate traffic calming measures) on the worst parts of these roads before more people are injured, or killed.
So I'm not fundamentalist on speed cameras - just think they look like the best option. It's the problem I'm worried about - any sensible solution is good for me. :);)
snowy_again
29-04-2008, 16:48
Fair enough, tbh I get suspicious when anything is done with a political connection.
Strangely I've seen more accidents in the last month caused by those pavement extensions - cyclists getting boxed in by cars / or not looking at the road and getting thrown over their handlebars. Yet to see a petition about it though.
piratetv
29-04-2008, 22:37
Strangely I've seen more accidents in the last month caused by those pavement extensions - cyclists getting boxed in by cars / or not looking at the road and getting thrown over their handlebars. Yet to see a petition about it though.
They are unbelievably dangerous... i lived opposite one and it was a regular nightly thing for cars to catch the edge of the pavement where it sticks out, resulting in either a tyre blowing out, or the car careering across the road, or collision with the bus stop sign pole/opposite kerb/nearby car etc etc etc. There were at least 3 people run over or hit by traffic while i lived there, and cyclists as you say would often be catapulted over the handlebars on contact. I did point this out to various highways types/council types etc but it seemed they cared very little indeed. :rolleyes:
dream_girl
30-04-2008, 15:50
Speaking as a motoryclist myself I'd say you're about right; that's if you equate breaking the speed limit with going too fast.
One reason we get angry when challenged is that if we have an accident we are almost always the only ones hurt, and we have to pay a lot more attention than a typical car driver or pedestrian if we want to stay out of A&E.
I can't beleiev that if a motorcyclist hit me at 30 plus mph, I would escape unscathed.
I've had a few close calls while on my bike. Motorcyclists often go far too fast for the road conditions, through narrow gaps, and pass very close to cyclists and at high speed.
I feel that as a cyclist of 30 odd years that I should receive some respect as a skilled road user too.
I've also become very used to the aggressive comments from motorcyclists who think the bus lanes and the ASLs are for them.
detective-boy
02-05-2008, 15:43
Maybe he knows from experience that people often speed down Dulwich Rd. Maybe he lives on or near Dulwich Rd? Maybe you're making assumptions.
You really are spectacularly fucking stupid ... :rolleyes:
detective-boy
02-05-2008, 15:45
My personal experience is that motorcyclists almost always go too fast - and become aggressive when challenged.
My personal experience is that people who feel able to post prejudiced shite like this are dickheads.
detective-boy
02-05-2008, 15:46
- no its not -
Yes. It is. You judge individuals on the basis of your prejudices against a group. End of.
I can't beleiev that if a motorcyclist hit me at 30 plus mph, I would escape unscathed.
I've had a few close calls while on my bike. Motorcyclists often go far too fast for the road conditions, through narrow gaps, and pass very close to cyclists and at high speed.
I feel that as a cyclist of 30 odd years that I should receive some respect as a skilled road user too.
I've also become very used to the aggressive comments from motorcyclists who think the bus lanes and the ASLs are for them.
If you were hit at 30 you'd be killed or seriously injured. Fortunately it never seems to happen. Bikes in town always manage to stay on target. As a cyclist/ped/car driver myself I know how scary it is when they whizz past with inches to spare. But they hardly ever hit anything unless a car pulls a SMIDSY on them. So it's best just to trust them to get on with it. The only sub-group which can't be trusted is the teenage show-offs on scooters who like to pull stunts and ride absolutely everywhere at full throttle. But they're east to spot. And I like to think their riding is somewhat self-limiting.
As for the ones who cut you up or are otherwise rude in ASLs or bus lanes, show no mercy - that's unforgiveable. IME the sub-group to blame for this is typically the self-centred newbie commuter who thinks he's riding sensibly but is somewhat overwhelmed by the experience, never looks in his mirrors and is always getting in everyone's way. A lot of them have a near miss and go back to public transport in fear after just one season of commuting. But of course they are always replaced by the new season's intake of fresh meat.
Any biker with experience and half a brain realises that everyone on a two wheeler is equally vulnerable and we should be spreading a bit of cameraderie. The people without engines should always be given priority and plenty of wobble-margin. If I come across one trying to negotiate a death-defying lane change (e.g. the elephant and castle roundabout) I try to protect them from cars.
You really are spectacularly fucking stupid ... :rolleyes:
Course I am luv :rolleyes:
fucking muppet
Gixxer1000
02-05-2008, 21:22
Fortunately it never seems to happen. Bikes in town always manage to stay on target. .
:rolleyes:
My personal experience is that people who feel able to post prejudiced shite like this are dickheads.
Take it somewhere else please DB/Blagsta. I'm really bored of it. This is a place where people who live in Brixton, or who are concerned about it as a place, discuss things.
Post reported - it's disrespectful to the rest of us to brawl here.
Take it somewhere else please DB/Blagsta. I'm really bored of it. This is a place where people who live in Brixton, or who are concerned about it as a place, discuss things. I agree. Please put each other on ignore. Thanks.
FridgeMagnet
03-05-2008, 10:43
Posts removed - stop it.
Please, please, PLEASE stop the bickering. You're never going to agree with each other so you may as well put each other on ignore and let people debate the topic
Oh, and I'm not taking sides here: I've just got a thumping hangover and want the reported posts to stop!
Hang on, I actually liveon the road being discussed. I know the problems, what does db know about it?
How do you know that speed was a factor in this collision? Or are you making the (usual) assumption that motorcyle = speeding / maniac / at fault? :confused:
I live on Dulwich Rd. Speed is a problem. Where do you live db?
I live on Dalberg Road, which continues off the bottom of Dulwich Road - if you ignore the one way system. We get frequent full throttle fly-bys of two or three kids on scooters. They do laps of the narrow residential streets here at what seems like 50 mph, with very noisy exhausts. Does anybody know which estate they live on? I'm sorely tempted to string some fishing line between the lamp posts to get their attention. I've tried other remedies, i.e. calling the police (who wouldn't come) and standing on the street corner taking photos of them.
detective-boy
03-05-2008, 10:58
This is a place where people who live in Brixton, or who are concerned about it as a place, discuss things.
I replied to this post (by hendo, not Blagsta) earlier, but the post was removed.
It explained (a) that I am concerned about Brixton as a place - it is why I came here in the first place; (b) my initial post on this thread challenged an assumption based on anti-motorcylist prejudice and (c) that I would continue to challenge any such prejudice in future.
I have no time for those who speed in residential streets and in conditions where it creates danger to others. But my point is that it has been ASSUMED that the motorcyclist in this case WAS speeding because OTHER motorcyclists (and drivers) often speed. That is stereotyping and prejudice.
detective-boy
03-05-2008, 11:02
We get frequent full throttle fly-bys of two or three kids on scooters.
It's not only a local problem ... :(
Three went racing past me last week, in and out of traffic, one up on to the pavement for 50yds, one causing a bus to brake violently. Caught up with them at the next lights and read them their fortune. Surprisingly they seemed pretty chastened ... maybe the fact I was on the R1 at the time cut through their consciousness ...
Unfortunately cameras will not stop this sort of recklessness (many are not properly registered / are stolen). Only police patrols will stand any chance of doing that.
detective-boy
03-05-2008, 11:05
I've just got a thumping hangover ...
* Heads off to the Boris threads with concerning new information about editorial celebrations ... * :D
snowy_again
03-05-2008, 11:08
I'm sorely tempted to string some fishing line between the lamp posts to get their attention.
At which point I'd call the police on you too, as you're likely to kill me as I cycle through them. Thanks for that.
Speed bumps on Dulwich won't get rid of those kids (I know the ones you mean), as its probable that the bikes aren't theirs, or they don't care about their condition. A speed bump is just a little ramp to take off from isn't it? Certainly was in my youth. A speed camera photographing a bike that's not registered / nicked is a chocolate teapot.
My experience is that most motorbike riders are considerate, its just that with the onset of spring there's a few more of them out there learning. Just avoid the ones with the indicator permanently flashing riding the bright shiny new scooter.
I replied to this post (by hendo, not Blagsta) earlier, but the post was removed.
It explained (a) that I am concerned about Brixton as a place - it is why I came here in the first place; (b) my initial post on this thread challenged an assumption based on anti-motorcylist prejudice and (c) that I would continue to challenge any such prejudice in future.
I have no time for those who speed in residential streets and in conditions where it creates danger to others. But my point is that it has been ASSUMED that the motorcyclist in this case WAS speeding because OTHER motorcyclists (and drivers) often speed. That is stereotyping and prejudice.
No one assumed anything db. You're being paranoid. Again. Bob said he was going to get a petition up for speed cameras in response to Ms T saying people speed down Dulwich Rd (which they do, as you would know if you were familiar with the area). You then went off on a paranoid rant. No one thus far had said anything remotely prejudicial about motorcyclists.
Gixxer1000
03-05-2008, 12:21
No one thus far had said anything remotely prejudicial about motorcyclists.
Wrong and DB isnt the only person whose been pissed off by the bollocks posted on here.
Anyway not going to get wound up any further as its a beautiful day and Ive just picked up my new bike:cool:
Where was the prejudice in posts 1, 2 and 3?
Gixxer1000
03-05-2008, 12:51
Well post 1, there was an implication that traffic calming would have prevented the accident. Prejudging the outcome of the police investigation.
Shiny bike beckons now:D
Yes, where was the prejudice?
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 09:54
No one assumed anything db.
Why are you trying to engage me again.
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 09:59
Well post 1, there was an implication that traffic calming would have prevented the accident. Prejudging the outcome of the police investigation.
There was. Which was why in post 5 I asked for the basis ... and the prejudice and evidence of assumption came in post 6:
Well there is a serious general problem on both Dulwich & Railton road of people speeding like loons on the straight bits.
Plus the position of the motorbike under the van indicated that the motorbike was going straight, and the van had turned into it. So probably the motorbike going too fast combined with the van driver not paying enough attention I'd guess.
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 10:00
Anyway not going to get wound up any further as its a beautiful day and Ive just picked up my new bike:cool:
Anyway, I am going to get wound up further as it's a beautiful day and I had my R1 nicked yesterday :mad:
There was. Which was why in post 5 I asked for the basis ... and the prejudice and evidence of assumption came in post 6:
So prejudice and evidence for assumption came in post 6, after you had started ranting about assumptions? I see.
I also find it amazing that you think you know more about what happened than Bob even though (a) you don't know the road and the speeding problems on it and (b) Bob actually saw the aftermath and you didn't. Yet it's everyone else making assumptions.
Mrs Magpie
04-05-2008, 10:24
AAARGH!
STOP IT!
I came onto this thread to say that a partially sighted pedestrian I take extra care crossing those roads because a dangerous minority go very very fast. i don't like road humps because they wreck axles of Fire-engines and larger vehicles (like a mini-bus with a wheelchair lift at my work...the axle snapped) but those road cushion thingies seem quite good, if very expensive. The trouble with speed cameras is that they don't deter people with illegal vehicles, and there's a lot of illegal vehicles about.
AAARGH!
STOP IT!
Sorry. I'm just fucked off with db thinking he knows better than people who actually live round here!
Mrs Magpie
04-05-2008, 10:35
He has got knowledge of the area though, including on a motorbike and I think you should put each other on ignore. I think you both make a valuable contribution to these boards but not when you wind each other up.
He has got knowledge of the area though, including on a motorbike and I think you should put each other on ignore. I think you both make a valuable contribution to these boards but not when you wind each other up.
He's telling people who live on Dulwich Rd that they're assuming there's a problem with speeding! The man can contribute excellent stuff to the boards, but not when he's in this sort of arrogant paranoid mood.
snowy_again
04-05-2008, 11:33
i thought DB was making a point that there was an assumption that the motorbike itself was speeding and therefore the cause of the accident, and IMO that was the impression I got from those first posts, hence me making a comment. None of us know whether it was or not, whether we live on Dulwich Rd or not.
I don't wish to fan the flames, but this isn't the first time that db has taken a discussion about local issues and derailed it into a general discussion. Perhaps in the future you could start another thread when you want to have a more general debate - perhaps with an OP saying "inspired by this thread..."
Gixxer1000
04-05-2008, 12:26
Anyway, I am going to get wound up further as it's a beautiful day and I had my R1 nicked yesterday :mad:
:(
Far be it from me to fan the flames still further, but I'm surprised none of my fellow motorcyclists have argued that the victim can't have been speeding because he got away with 'a few fractures'. If a biker hits a van at some of the speeds discussed in this thread he tends to shed the odd limb, or perhaps his head, and die. Chest injuries have been the leading cause of death since helmets have been compulsory.
I might nip out there later to see what sort of speed I would normally do on that stretch.
Anyway, I am going to get wound up further as it's a beautiful day and I had my R1 nicked yesterday :mad:
Bummer DB, sorry to hear that :(
i thought DB was making a point that there was an assumption that the motorbike itself was speeding and therefore the cause of the accident, and IMO that was the impression I got from those first posts, hence me making a comment. None of us know whether it was or not, whether we live on Dulwich Rd or not.
No, there was no assumption in the first 3 posts (apart from a general point about speeding on Dulwich Rd - the OP could have been read as the van speeding or the bike speeding), which is what db originally commented on.
Gixxer1000
04-05-2008, 16:59
<Antfucker mode> Yeah but no but yeah; it was pointed out that the bike appeared to be going straight (from its position under the van) and the van was turning. So the assumption was that the biker was speeding<Antfucker mode off>
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 17:19
i thought DB was making a point that there was an assumption that the motorbike itself was speeding and therefore the cause of the accident,
That's exactly what I was challenging. Blagsta, however, chooses to misrepresent everything I post for some reason best known to themselves. I have made absolutely no comment whatsoever about the general problem on the road in question. And I simply asked what the basis for the claim was in post 5, as anyone capable of basic comprehension can see for themselves.
I suggest that you (and everyone else) ignore Blagsta, as I have done, especially when it comes to them posting about what I have allegedly posted.
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 17:20
Bummer DB, sorry to hear that :(
Cheers (and Gixxer). I never liked fucking South-East London anyway. :mad::mad:
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 17:23
I don't wish to fan the flames, but this isn't the first time that db has taken a discussion about local issues and derailed it into a general discussion.
How is it "derailing" a discussion to challenge the basis for the original post?
If the stereotyping and prejudice had been on the basis of race would you have been suggesting that it shouldn't be challenged but another thread should be started to discuss it ... :confused::confused:
How is it "derailing" a discussion to challenge the basis for the original post?
If the stereotyping and prejudice had been on the basis of race would you have been suggesting that it shouldn't be challenged but another thread should be started to discuss it ... :confused::confused:
Hang on - I was sympathetic to the biker on the grounds that I thought he might have been killed! :confused:
How is it "derailing" a discussion to challenge the basis for the original post?
If the stereotyping and prejudice had been on the basis of race would you have been suggesting that it shouldn't be challenged but another thread should be started to discuss it ... :confused::confused:
If you go back and read the OP, you'll notice that there was no suggestion that the motorcylist was speeding - just that there are no traffic calming measures on Dulwich. Because it's a bugbear of yours, you took that to mean that the motorcyclist was speeding - like you saw a key word and kicked into action. It's exactly what you did on a previous thread, when I mentioned the broken windows theory. You ignored the context and launched into your prepared spiel on the subject. It was unfortunate in both cases that it was early on in the thread, neither of which were given much of a chance to develop into a discussion on a local topic.
I have great respect for the knowledge you bring to Urban db, but I wish you'd stop and think for a second.
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 18:22
Hang on - I was sympathetic to the biker on the grounds that I thought he might have been killed! :confused:
Yeah, I know ... and that's really nice.
The problem is that lots of people routinely assume that motorcyclists are "going to fast" - it is a type of instititionalised prejudice. And, as (a) a motorcyclist and (b, and more importantly) someone who does not agree that any sort of stereotyping or prejudice should be allowed to flourish, I routinely challenged it.
detective-boy
04-05-2008, 18:29
Because it's a bugbear of yours, you took that to mean that the motorcyclist was speeding - like you saw a key word and kicked into action.
No. I didn't.
If you actually READ post 5 you'll see that I don't "kick into" any action. I ASK. I did so quite deliberately. Speed had been suggested as a factor by the original post referring to the absence of traffic calming and post 3 referring to starting a petition for a speed camera. As these posts had been made in the context of this particular incident it is plain that, in the mind of the original poster, there may well be some connection between the incident and speed. So I ASKED.
And the response in post 6 makes it plain that there IS a baseless assumption ("So probably the motorbike going too fast..."), which I then challenge. If the answer had been different (i.e. there had been some basis for the belief)
You go to the Blagsta school of comprehension? I do wish you'd actually try and read and understand what is posted before "kicking into" slagging it off.
No. I didn't.
If you actually READ post 5 you'll see that I don't "kick into" any action. I ASK. I did so quite deliberately. Speed had been suggested as a factor by the original post referring to the absence of traffic calming and post 3 referring to starting a petition for a speed camera. As these posts had been made in the context of this particular incident it is plain that, in the mind of the original poster, there may well be some connection between the incident and speed. So I ASKED.
And the response in post 6 makes it plain that there IS a baseless assumption ("So probably the motorbike going too fast..."), which I then challenge. If the answer had been different (i.e. there had been some basis for the belief)
You go to the Blagsta school of comprehension? I do wish you'd actually try and read and understand what is posted before "kicking into" slagging it off.
But the point is that you ignore the local context, you ignore the local knowledge of the people who actually live there, and you shift the discussion onto your own agenda - and that's the thread derailed. And you do this because you don't live in the area, so you don't care about the local issue - just about the wider issues, as you see them. It's frustrating for people who come to the Brixton forum solely for discussion about the area.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
04-05-2008, 21:39
and understand[/i] what is posted before "kicking into" slagging it off.
I've never seen a poster on here enter threads dismissing anything people have posted as 'bollocks' and getting abusive instantly as much as you do. For you to post something like that is really taking the piss.:rolleyes:
<Antfucker mode> Yeah but no but yeah; it was pointed out that the bike appeared to be going straight (from its position under the van) and the van was turning. So the assumption was that the biker was speeding<Antfucker mode off>
Yes, in post 6, after db went off on one. As I've already pointed out.
That's exactly what I was challenging.
You challenged Bob before that statement was made.
No. I didn't.
If you actually READ post 5 you'll see that I don't "kick into" any action. I ASK. I did so quite deliberately. Speed had been suggested as a factor by the original post referring to the absence of traffic calming and post 3 referring to starting a petition for a speed camera. As these posts had been made in the context of this particular incident it is plain that, in the mind of the original poster, there may well be some connection between the incident and speed. So I ASKED.
And the response in post 6 makes it plain that there IS a baseless assumption ("So probably the motorbike going too fast..."), which I then challenge. If the answer had been different (i.e. there had been some basis for the belief)
You go to the Blagsta school of comprehension? I do wish you'd actually try and read and understand what is posted before "kicking into" slagging it off.
You really need to go back and read the thread in order.
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 10:18
But the point is that you ignore the local context, you ignore the local knowledge of the people who actually live there, and you shift the discussion onto your own agenda.
Sorry.
I didn't realise that all threads were now (a) single issue and (b) only to be used by people with a direct, personal knowledge of the precise subjects under discussion.
My point did not derail anything. It took something which was being used as part of the "evidence" for the discussion and challenged it's veracity. Are you really saying that the people of Brixton should be allowed to try and solve their problems based on fiction and prejudice without challenge? It was a single point, made in two posts and apparently accepted.
Others (like you) came along and turned it into a saga that it never was.
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 10:20
I've never seen a poster on here enter threads dismissing anything people have posted as 'bollocks' and getting abusive instantly as much as you do. For you to post something like that is really taking the piss.:rolleyes:
Go on then, provide the evidence for that allegation ...
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 10:23
You really need to go back and read the thread in order.
Will you please fuck off trying to engage with me. I am ignoring everything you say and you will not that I have not directed any response to you since the mods told us to pack it in.
Mrs Magpie
05-05-2008, 10:44
DB, my point earlier about road humps versus road 'cushions' versus speed cameras. Can you give us your take on their relative merits etc? Also what are those road cushions actually called?
Monkeygrinder's Organ
05-05-2008, 11:11
Go on then, provide the evidence for that allegation ...
No. If you don't think you act like that you're kidding yourself. I can't be asked to trawl through threads trying to find examples.
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 11:25
DB, my point earlier about road humps versus road 'cushions' versus speed cameras. Can you give us your take on their relative merits etc? Also what are those road cushions actually called?
I think some of them are actually called cushions, but there's a whole range of different designs, some called humps, some called tables and some called all sorts of other things, I'm sure!
Physical traffic calming, whether by humps or redesigned layouts or whatever, have the advantage of slowing (to some extent) all traffic. Unfortunately this includes emergency vehicles and whilst them being slowed on the last few hundred yards of any journey in side streets may not be the end of the world, there is clearly a significant problem if the measures are used on through roads where emergency vehicles may be travelling some distance.
As for the relative merits of different types of humps, I am not sure I know enough about them to say. I know the idea of the cushions is that they impact on cars (being wider than the typical saloon wheelbase) but not on emergency vehicles with wider wheelbases. Unfortunately that also means they do not impact on vans, many 4x4s, motorcycles, etc.
Speed cameras do not directly prevent excessive speed in the same way as physical traffic calming measures - they act solely as a deterrent. They are also a totally blunt instrument in that they do not distinguish in any way between different road conditions (the speed limit is an arbitrary figure which is neither always safe nor always unsafe). Unlike physical traffic calming, however, they do bring a very significant increase in the chance of being caught breaing the law (a massive deterrent factor) and they provide a means of prosecution of those caught. There is no doubt that they are effective in relation to speed offences but they do nothing at all in relation to other means of dangerous driving and unregistered drivers. When used to relentlessly prosecute otherwise law-abiding people (as they seem to increasngly be) in non-dangerous situations (e.g. 48mph on a deserted 40mph dual carriageway at 3am on a dry clear night) they bring the enforcement of the law into disrepute and, I believe, discourage sensible, thinking driving.
Neither physical traffic calming or cameras have all the answers. They need to be used intellgently and with other methods, not least police patrol or visiting checks (sadly the police traffic activity I have seen recently seems to be based on using their new digital laser speed guns which do not involve them actually stopping any offending vehicles ... :(:().
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 11:26
No. If you don't think you act like that you're kidding yourself. I can't be asked to trawl through threads trying to find examples.
Which, roughly translated, means "I just said that off the top of my head and, now I think of it, I can't actually remember any concrete examples" ... :rolleyes:
Will you please fuck off trying to engage with me. I am ignoring everything you say and you will not that I have not directed any response to you since the mods told us to pack it in.
Put me on ignore if you can't control yourself.
Mrs Magpie
05-05-2008, 11:32
cameras.......do nothing at all in relation to other means of dangerous driving and unregistered drivers. Yeah, that's my take. Is London cursed with a higher proportion of illegal drivers, or is that just a perception? Quite a lot of people I know who have been involved in accidents often seem to find that the other party is untraceable....maybe I just don't hear about the cases that are resolved without hassle....
Monkeygrinder's Organ
05-05-2008, 11:33
Which, roughly translated, means "I just said that off the top of my head and, now I think of it, I can't actually remember any concrete examples" ... :rolleyes:
Yeah whatever. You can think about why you come across like that or you can carry on feeling self-righteous as usual. It doesn't make any odds to me tbh.
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 12:03
Is London cursed with a higher proportion of illegal drivers, or is that just a perception?
I think it is. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of uninsured / untaxed / unregistered vehicles when the police and other agencies do one of their "swoops" which dos rather suggest there are loads of them out there everywhere.
Ironically, the ever-increasing use of cameras, and the ever-increasing use of absolute responsibility of registered keepers, is encouraging ever more people to duck and dive when it comes to registering their vehicles (foreign registration is a recent wheeze ...). The figures which periodically pop up from TfL or from the council parking authorities suggest this is an increasing issue. That is one of the major downsides of cameras and automated prosection of registered keepers ... it ONLY works in relation to the law-abiding who have properly registered their vehicles. And the apparent lack of enthusiasm for persecution of the law-avoiding is one of the big things which pisses them off.
I think it is. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of uninsured / untaxed / unregistered vehicles when the police and other agencies do one of their "swoops" which dos rather suggest there are loads of them out there everywhere.I was riding home through the Limehouse Link last night. This black hatchback went through all 3 sets of cameras at warp factor 5, triggering them one after the other. He made no effort whatsoever to slow down for any of them (no brake lights) and pretty much cut up every car he passed.
When I drew level with him at the next set of lights on the Highway its was a mid twenties bloke suited and booted :(
The age old story.. Never a copper around when you need one :mad:
This was a UK registered vehicle. I assume driving like that you'd either have to change your car or reg plates every few weeks as that's all it would take for the police or DVLA to realise they have no reliable data on who owns the vehicle and for that registration to hit the automated stop lists.
The terrifying thing about these sort of drivers is that there seems to be no comeback whatsoever if they can't be identified. If I'd have been in front of him or filtering, rather than in lane 1 when he shot past it could have been very messy indeed. Human nature being what it is, if someone thinks there are no possible consequences to their actions, then those actions are often horrendous.
You get pricks like this all over the place, when I lived down Park Hall Road and commuted to the Isle of Dogs it was like a replay of Mad Max :(
detective-boy
05-05-2008, 16:33
This was a UK registered vehicle. I assume driving like that you'd either have to change your car or reg plates every few weeks as that's all it would take for the police or DVLA to realise they have no reliable data on who owns the vehicle and for that registration to hit the automated stop lists.
I wouldn't bet on that. There are no "automated stop lists". A vehicle number has to be specifically identified by someone as of interest worthy of having a marker placed on the PNC. And there is little routine sharing of information between different police units, let alone different agencies. It's all there if they care to look ... but they don't because that takes time and effort. So until the number starts to appear regularly in the same agencies systems, or some individual enforcement officer (perhaps the operator viewing the three cameras blitzed in quick succession) decides to dig further, no connections are made.
And stopped by who anyway? How many times have you passed anything which resembles a stop-check? Everything else is steadily being replaced by cameras ...
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 11:55
You really are spectacularly fucking stupid ... :rolleyes:
My personal experience is that people who feel able to post prejudiced shite like this are dickheads.
I love policemen - I really do :rolleyes:
Yes. It is. You judge individuals on the basis of your prejudices against a group. End of.
There is a world of difference between judging people on the basis of an attribute they were born with (being gay or black or a man) - or occured to them randomly and out of their control such as losing the abilty to walk, becoming unemployed, etc. - and something that someone chooses to do (ride a motorbike, drive a car, become a politician, etc).
Example - only complete cunts choose a career in the police.
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 11:57
If you were hit at 30 you'd be killed or seriously injured. Fortunately it never seems to happen. Bikes in town always manage to stay on target. As a cyclist/ped/car driver myself I know how scary it is when they whizz past with inches to spare. But they hardly ever hit anything unless a car pulls a SMIDSY on them. So it's best just to trust them to get on with it. The only sub-group which can't be trusted is the teenage show-offs on scooters who like to pull stunts and ride absolutely everywhere at full throttle. But they're east to spot. And I like to think their riding is somewhat self-limiting.
As for the ones who cut you up or are otherwise rude in ASLs or bus lanes, show no mercy - that's unforgiveable. IME the sub-group to blame for this is typically the self-centred newbie commuter who thinks he's riding sensibly but is somewhat overwhelmed by the experience, never looks in his mirrors and is always getting in everyone's way. A lot of them have a near miss and go back to public transport in fear after just one season of commuting. But of course they are always replaced by the new season's intake of fresh meat.
Any biker with experience and half a brain realises that everyone on a two wheeler is equally vulnerable and we should be spreading a bit of cameraderie. The people without engines should always be given priority and plenty of wobble-margin. If I come across one trying to negotiate a death-defying lane change (e.g. the elephant and castle roundabout) I try to protect them from cars.
thankyou for dealing with my points reasonably :) unlike dick boy there
well yes, you may be right about m-cyclists knowing what they are doing but i still feel they are not factoring in the unexpected - I might lose my arm if I signal at the wrong time - or even look behind to see if its safe to signal, and wobble slightly.
sometimes after a m-bike has screamed past me inches away I've been left seriously stressed and shaking - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first. I've caught some up and complained and quite often get told to fuck off when it was actually an apolgy I would have liked.
Never mind.
detective-boy
14-05-2008, 12:10
There is a world of difference between judging people on the basis of an attribute they were born with (being gay or black or a man) - or occured to them randomly and out of their control such as losing the abilty to walk, becoming unemployed, etc. - and something that someone chooses to do (ride a motorbike, drive a car, become a politician, etc).
There is a difference. But there is not a "world of difference". It is exactly the same unjustifiable, prejudicial attitude being displayed - hating someone else because of some real or perceived difference.
Are you really arguing that it would be perfectly OK to hate, say, new age travellers, who have made a life choice you do not approve of? :confused::confused:
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 12:12
Are you really arguing that it would be perfectly OK to hate, say, new age travellers, who have made a life choice you do not approve of? :confused::confused:
I've met plenty of people that do hate New Age Travellers. I don't personally, but would never equate that with racism. It seems to be an acceptable opinion for many.
I repeat - WORLD of difference.
detective-boy
14-05-2008, 12:15
sometimes after a m-bike has screamed past me inches away I've been left seriously stressed and shaking - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.
...
sometimes after a p-bike has wandered into my path without looking and I have managed to avoid them by inches I've been left seriously stressed and shaking (and, on one occasion, on the fucking floor faced with a massive repair bill and no-one to sue) - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.
...
See. We can all do that. But I don't claim or imply that ALL pedal cyclists are pricks. Why do you persist in generalising about motorcyclists? All it does is demonstrate that you really ARE prejudiced. Why not admit it?
detective-boy
14-05-2008, 12:16
I've met plenty of people that do hate New Age Travellers. I don't personally, but would never equate that with racism. It seems to be an acceptable opinion for many.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
* Gives up trying to reason with the terminally stupid ... *
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 12:19
...See. We can all do that. But I don't claim or imply that ALL pedal cyclists are pricks. Why do you persist in generalising about motorcyclists? All it does is demonstrate that you really ARE prejudiced. Why not admit it?
No you're SO right. I renounce all my hateful prejudices.
Peace and love to all motorcyclists.
Still hate coppers though.
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 12:20
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
* Gives up trying to reason with the terminally stupid ... *
Arsehole
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 12:27
...sometimes after a p-bike has wandered into my path without looking and I have managed to avoid them by inches I've been left seriously stressed and shaking (and, on one occasion, on the fucking floor faced with a massive repair bill and no-one to sue) - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.
Doesn't work :rolleyes:
Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 12:41
Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.
Neither is calling me dickhead or terminally stupid. I can't argue with him - he just winds me up - and I reckon he does it on purpose to get the other person on the back foot. I reckon he learned it in police training.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
14-05-2008, 13:24
Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.
Hmmm, I'm not one for arguing with modding policy but I think that's unfair. Why does Dream Girl get a warning and not Detective Boy?
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 13:25
Hmmm, I'm not one for arguing with modding policy but I think that's unfair. Why does Dream Girl get a warning and not Detective Boy?
Was that a warning?
Oh goody :D
DB has already been spoken to in private, afaik.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
14-05-2008, 13:27
Fair enough.:)
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 13:28
DB has already been spoken to in private, afaik.
Why him in private and me on the boards. :confused: It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?
snowy_again
14-05-2008, 13:34
I'm doing a scientific survey (based on drinking at the regent) which so far concludes that there's actually not that much speeding going on - or at least not as much as I'd first imagined. There's a lot of noisy noisy cars / bikes accelerating on the stretch between say Chaucer and Rymer, but no consistent speeding down the entire street.
The bus stop outside the lido / regent is the cause for at least one near miss a day, due to impatient motorists getting annoyed and crossing the central dotted line to overtake it, invariably directly into the oncoming vehicle.
Unfortunately this research is probably indirectly sponsored by Diageo or a PubCo and therefore should be taken with a pinch of salt (like most message board based conversations).
Am I pre judging or have I had 35 years experience as a cyclist, motorist and pedestrian, and am now sick and tired of idiots who ride motorbikes?
Why him in private and me on the boards. :confused: It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?Not really, your preconceptions about bikers did that all on their own ;)
Why him in private and me on the boards. :confused: It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?
Cos one mod went one way and the other went the other. Sorry, we're inconsistent, but we do try to do our best.
I find a good rule of thumb is - stay civil. Then you don't have to worry about us sticking our noses in at all :)
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 16:36
Cos one mod went one way and the other went the other. Sorry, we're inconsistent, but we do try to do our best.
I find a good rule of thumb is - stay civil. Then you don't have to worry about us sticking our noses in at all :)
think i might have to put dick boy on ignore - he winds me up every time :(
think i might have to put dick boy on ignore - he winds me up every time :(
This is an excellent idea.
His name is detective-boy, btw.
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 16:48
His name is detective-boy, btw.
dickboy is just an affectionate nickname i like to use :)
Peace, brothers and sisters. If DG has had some frightening near misses with m/cs, it stands to reason that she's going to react to them negatively, just as I have a hard time liking alsatians because one bit my mother.
I think we can all agree that there's a fair sprinkling of See You Next Tuesdays using every mode of transport. I've been a motorcyclist, cyclist and car driver for decades and the group that irritates me the most is...forget it, it doesn't matter does it?
Back to the Dulwich Road incident. I went for a pootle along that stretch the other day and my typical speed there when traffic is light would be 40 because it's a wide, straight, open bit of road with good visibility and no particular hazards. And like many people I tend to ignore speed limits and ride quite briskly if I feel like it. I think it's fair to expect that a significant proportion of bikers will allow their speed to creep up to 40 there. And the odd one will do 50+. (I'm not making a judgement about the injured rider. As I said earlier, it could be argued that he was probably not speeding because he got away with fractures rather than death.)
So, does the road need a speed camera? I was recently told by someone who ought to know that speed camera locations are determined by the number of KSIs (incidents in which someone's been killed or seriously injured) over a given period. So a petition ought not to make any difference. I'm not sure whether the one that's been set up will achieve anything. Although I suppose it might be good PR for the local Lib Dems.
detective-boy
14-05-2008, 18:50
dickboy is just an affectionate nickname i like to use :)
Antilocution: yet another shining example of your understanding of prejudice and discrimination ...
Gixxer1000
14-05-2008, 19:25
So another R1 or are you tempted by the orange side DB?
detective-boy
14-05-2008, 19:49
So another R1 or are you tempted by the orange side DB?
Don't know ... I do like the R1s ... but there's loads of nice alternatives about at the moment. Trying not to think too much about it at the moment as it'll be weeks before the bloody insurance company get their act together ... :mad::mad:
dream_girl
14-05-2008, 20:08
Antilocution: yet another shining example of your understanding of prejudice and discrimination ...
what's it like being right all the time?
Would customs have to wear sunblock to look up your arse?
So about that ignore button ??
This is getting a bit tedious now, from both of youse.
Hi
I live off Dulwich Rd on Shakespeare. I am really bothered by speeding cars lorries etc who see a straight bit of road and put their foot down in case, heaven forbid, they should have to make way for another driver coming in the opposite direction. I've had my car smashed up parked outside my home, I've had a beautiful cat killed on the road, every time I cross the road I do so in fear that there will be an aggressive driver bearing down on me with the engine roaring and it needs to stop. Its not just Dulwich and Railton, its the toastrack of roads in between, particularly Shakespeare. I've signed the petition and will do any number of these in the interest of getting traffic calming introduced. If there's anyone in the know here, how is the best way to get this done?
I live on Mayall Road, and we've got speed bumps. Unfortunately I think a child had to be killed before they were put in. :(
what's it like being right all the time?
Would customs have to wear sunblock to look up your arse?
I don't care who starts it, but this has got to stop. Right Now.
snowy_again
16-05-2008, 10:29
I got the bus this morning and did notice that most drivers ignore the pedestrian crossing by Chocolate Box / Effra Parade, and that that area could be improved with more signage / school children crossing notices. I'll see if some of the parents at Effra Early Years are also concerned, as there may be added clout if it comes from a statutory organisation.
I got the bus this morning and did notice that most drivers ignore the pedestrian crossing by Chocolate Box / Effra Parade, and that that area could be improved with more signage / school children crossing notices. I'll see if some of the parents at Effra Early Years are also concerned, as there may be added clout if it comes from a statutory organisation.
I take my son to the Brockwell Park three or four times a week, crossing that zebra with a pushchair. I really have to stare down drivers to get them to stop and if they do stop they'll rev up and start up again when we're half way across.
Drivers coming around the corner from Morval road seem to be the worst, maybe they get distracted thinking about the Brixton Water Lane junction
before coming to the zebra.
Not a Vet
16-05-2008, 10:52
I almost got killed on that zebra by a motorist who didn't even notice that a) there was a crossing there and b) there was someone on it. He did an emergency stop when I screamed Shit and I ended up nudging his bonnet. I think that crossing's badly sited as it's too near the bus stop (if you're travelling into HH), so you overtake a bus and suddenly there's a crossing.
I almost got killed on that zebra by a motorist who didn't even notice that a) there was a crossing there and b) there was someone on it. He did an emergency stop when I screamed Shit and I ended up nudging his bonnet. I think that crossing's badly sited as it's too near the bus stop (if you're travelling into HH), so you overtake a bus and suddenly there's a crossing.
Agreed. It's also too close to the bend. Mind you, I am constantly amazed by the inability of some motorists to stop at zebra crossings. The one on Railton Road near the junction with Kellett Road is another case in point. I can't remember the number of times that I've made eye contact with a driver, so I know s/he has seen me, who then blithely sails past.
As a pedestrian and driver who is careful to stop at zebra crossings, it REALLY pisses me off.
detective-boy
16-05-2008, 11:34
... and suddenly there's a crossing.
No. The crossing has been there for years.
Suddenly you see the crossing. That is bad driving. You should always be able to stop safely in the distance you can see is clear. It is exactly the sort of driving that cameras are no fucking use at all in connection with and it is why the continuing obsession with ever more camera-based enforcement, often at the expense of other means, is actually leading to more danger on the roads.
Millions of people have millions of points, many for exceeding an arbitrary speed limit by a few miles an hour in circumstances where absolutely no actual danger was caused at all ... whilst psycho lunatics are free to drive around like maniacs, endangering other road users as much as they like, so long as they make sure they keep within the speed limit whenever there is a camera about (and they are very, very rarely sited in residential side streets where the dangers from speeding (even slightly) vehicles is greatest ... why is that ... :hmm:) or, alternatively, they don't give a fuck about registering their vehicle, getting insurance, etc. and hence the cameras simply collect a nice set of pictures of A.Another driving an unregistered vehicle ...
EVERY failure to accord precedence on a zebra crossing BY DEFINITION includes significant, immediate danger to a vulnerable road user. Speed offences MAY, but frequently don't. Why the zero tolerance of the latter and the complete absence of interest in the former ... ?
Agreed. It's also too close to the bend. Mind you, I am constantly amazed by the inability of some motorists to stop at zebra crossings. The one on Railton Road near the junction with Kellett Road is another case in point. I can't remember the number of times that I've made eye contact with a driver, so I know s/he has seen me, who then blithely sails past.
As a pedestrian and driver who is careful to stop at zebra crossings, it REALLY pisses me off.I'm not one for hanging around on the bike where appropriate, but crashing pedestrian crossings, especially when someone is already on them, is unforgivable in my book.
About the only place I have some sympathy with a driver getting caught out by a crossing is the one at the southern end of Leman Street, just past the old cop shop and outside the new City Quarter development. For the past year the ground level vertical scaffolding for CQ has been surrounded by advertising, changing a 3" metal pole into a 1.5' column. As these columns are in a straight line parallel to the pavement edge it was very easy for pedestrians to approach that crossing totally hidden from oncoming traffic and only be visible as they stepped out onto the road. I've had a number of close calls there myself over the past year, recently its improved somewhat as there's only one or two columns left in place but its still dodgy.
I really struggle to understand how on earth those advertising hoardings were approved so close to a crossing and deployed in such a stupid manner :rolleyes:
EVERY failure to accord precedence on a zebra crossing BY DEFINITION includes significant, immediate danger to a vulnerable road user. Speed offences MAY, but frequently don't. Why the zero tolerance of the latter and the complete absence of interest in the former ... ?
Because the latter can be policed with cameras but the former can't? Totally agree that failing to stop at a zebra crossing should be penalised but how in practice can this be done with the limited resources given to traffic policing? Any ideas DB?
Thanks to everybody who has signed the petition so far.
I've not had much of a chance to do much recently due to a massive impending house move.
However I'll get more onto it once I've moved.
In the meantime I've established a Facebook group in parallel for the campaign - it's a non-party labelled group - which should allow some of you who are uncomfortable (for inexplicable reasons to me) with signing a Lib Dem campaign to sign up to.
It's here:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14660442630
detective-boy
16-05-2008, 17:28
Any ideas DB?
Foot duty, vehicle and traffic patrols, tasked with doing something about it. If the Safer Neighbourhood Team (or anyone else) made some high visibility sorties to observe and report offences it wouldn't take long for the message to get around. There is very little about policing which is rocket science - all it takes is the will to do something rather than not.
For the last six months EVERY traffic patrol I have seen engaged in some specific activity (as opposed to just driving around) have ALL been engaged in speed enforcement ... mostly using their new laser, digital guns which just clock the registration and later get downloaded into a system which issues tickets so there is no need to even stop the vehicle. Fucking cameras do this - why on earth are officers just doing even fucking more of it? And, if they must, why the fuck don't they stop the vehicles and report people face-to-face and (inevitably) pick up unlicensed / uninsured / unregistered drivers and vehicles and (occasionally) proper crims?
(As before this is a rhetorical question - it is because they have been infected with the simplistic "Speed Kills" mantra ... and they have extended that psychologically to "and nothing else does" ... :mad::mad:)
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