View Full Version : ASBO zone extended to Moorlands Estate
In response to 'growing anti-social problems', the central Brixton ASBO zone has now been extended east from Saltoun/Rushcroft Rd to include the beastly Somerleyton Road and all of the Moorlands Estate to Moorlands Road.
Curiously, the zone stops at the southern side of Coldharbour Lane.
((((shopkeepers under siege)))
i was looking through some government indicators at work today.
there is actually a series of govermenment performance indicators relating to ASBO's, good behaviour orders etc that local councils have to fill in each month.
nothing like trying to run a borough on statistics :(
detective-boy
15-11-2007, 16:36
nothing like trying to run a borough on statistics :(
It's the public (well, the public as represented by politicians / media) who demand them ...
How much has been spent?
What did we get for that?
How much activity has their been?
What outcomes have been achieved? ...
Nothing wrong with all that, it's "accountability" after all ... but if you want it you must acknowledge that (a) statistics are needed to establish the answers and (b) a bureaucracy is needed to establish the statistics.
It's the public (well, the public as represented by politicians / media) who demand them ...
How much has been spent?
What did we get for that?
How much activity has their been?
What outcomes have been achieved? ...
Nothing wrong with all that, it's "accountability" after all ... but if you want it you must acknowledge that (a) statistics are needed to establish the answers and (b) a bureaucracy is needed to establish the statistics.
i disagree a bit DB tbh
it's statistics demanded by central govt that i see.
the local authority i contract for (a london one i'd rather not say on here) has a huge amount of people employed just to satisfy central govt requirements
i understand what you are saying but i looked through the huge range of indicators we submit today and i was in awe of the mindlessness of it it tbh. i am an accountant/analyst by trade and i couldn't see the point of most of them. report by exception yes, but such volume and such poor planned data management i find incredible
i am all for local accountability but it's beyond belief.
a good friend of mine is a Sgt in the Met and he says the same. all paperwork, no constructive action.
<derail end>
detective-boy
16-11-2007, 09:54
it's statistics demanded by central govt that i see.
But they only want them because their voters want them, or they need them to feed promises made to their voters. "Central Government" uses them to measure the activities of police / councils so that they can trumpet the successes of their initiatives and "prove" that crime is down (as demanded by the public / media), hospitals infections are down (ditto), exam results are up (ditto) ...
It's why Central Government wants the information we should be looking at - they don't just gather it for it's own sake (well, not at first anyway, though after a while when we're on to a new initiative it tends to still be collected for years even though no-one does anything with it any more ...:rolleyes: )
Well...
The dispersal zone is also extending outwards on the other side to cover St Matthew's Peace Garden, and the streets beyond Saltoun Rd and Rattray Road.
But no more manpower. So things are to be stretched fairly thin, it would seem.
We were told yesterday, by a copper, that Coldharbour Ward (which covers Brixton Town Centre and most of the dispersal zone... happy to be corrected on this...) is the busiest in Western Europe in terms of calls made to the police.
This sounds like statistics to me. So where is the government response? Surely we need more than the pitifully small number of coppers currently on this ward?
memespring
17-11-2007, 11:24
Its not technically an ASBO zone, but a dispersal zone. It gives the police have the right to move on and ban from the area for 24 hours anyone perceived to be being anti social (this is defined specifically as issues relating to drug use or dealing).
As far as numbers go, the center of Brixton is still one of the most heavily policed areas in Britain (if the not the most).
something tells me you are pleased...? lol! (i guess at least it is now official) ...but terrrible really!
i was looking through some government indicators at work today.
there is actually a series of govermenment performance indicators relating to ASBO's, good behaviour orders etc that local councils have to fill in each month.
nothing like trying to run a borough on statistics :(
From your posts it seems u are skeptical of this.Correctly so IMO.This is not research to see if ASBOS are effective.Nor what is "effective" ever questioned.Collecting "performance indicators" is the same as social policy underwritten by solid research.If anything it accepts that ASBOs/Dispersal areas as a given.
In Soviet Union under Stalin the KGB had a quota of enemies of the people they had to arrest every month.They of course filled it even if it meant arresting people off willy nilly.So they filled their "performance indicator".
Giving people targets to meet (this also happens in NHS and the recent notorious example in a water company) leads bureaucracy to find ever more inventive ways of filling in forms.Not that its there fault-the system encourages it.
There are 2 meetings coming up about this subject.I picked up 2 leaflets.
1) Community Police Consultative Group & Coldharbour Lane Safer Neighbourhood Panel invite the public to a meeting on:
Monday 18th November at 6pm in the Golden Age Club Clarewood walk to discuss the extension of the Brixton Dispersal Zone to the Moorlands estate and surrounding roads.
Those present will include:LPCG,CLNP,Suzanne Wallace (Met),Sergeant Safer Neighbourhood Team,Lambeth Community Safety Team.
The leaflet for this meeting says:"It will affect children and young people in the community,as groups of two or more young people can be asked to move on and even be escorted home by officers."
2)Brixton Town Centre Forum
20th November 7pm Karibu Centre 7 Gresham Road SW9
"Crime and Disorder" in Brixton. "Crime is down in central Brixton.Do you agree."
Presenters
Acting Superintendant Lambeth Police
Cllr Mark Bennett
ASBO caseworker for Brixton
Drugs and Alcohol Action Team Manager
Community Safety Partnership Coordinator
CPCG
There are 2 meetings coming up about this subject.I picked up 2 leaflets.
1) Community Police Consultative Group & Coldharbour Lane Safer Neighbourhood Panel invite the public to a meeting on:
Monday 18th November at 6pm in the Golden Age Club Clarewood walk to discuss the extension of the Brixton Dispersal Zone to the Moorlands estate and surrounding roads."Golden Age Club" WTF? I assume they mean that rather uninviting space in the Barrier Block near Moorlands Road.
Wouldnt know I dont venture in the estate much.What is the "Golden Age" anyway?:)
2)Brixton Town Centre Forum
20th November 7pm Karibu Centre 7 Gresham Road SW9
"Crime and Disorder" in Brixton. "Crime is down in central Brixton.Do you agree."
Presenters
Acting Superintendant Lambeth Police
Cllr Mark Bennett
ASBO caseworker for Brixton
Drugs and Alcohol Action Team Manager
Community Safety Partnership Coordinator
CPCG
For anyone who's interested in coming the full agenda can be viewed here (http://www.mybrixton.org)
From your posts it seems u are skeptical of this.Correctly so IMO.This is not research to see if ASBOS are effective.Nor what is "effective" ever questioned.Collecting "performance indicators" is the same as social policy underwritten by solid research.If anything it accepts that ASBOs/Dispersal areas as a given.
In Soviet Union under Stalin the KGB had a quota of enemies of the people they had to arrest every month.They of course filled it even if it meant arresting people off willy nilly.So they filled their "performance indicator".
Giving people targets to meet (this also happens in NHS and the recent notorious example in a water company) leads bureaucracy to find ever more inventive ways of filling in forms.Not that its there fault-the system encourages it.
thats pretty much my view on it :)
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