View Full Version : What's happening at the Living Bah?
I'm hearing all sorts of rumours about Brixton's Favourite Yup Bar closing down and the old landlord coming back into the frame, but can anyone confirm this?
I've heard some other rather more unpleasant stuff, but I won't be posting it up here.
I'm hearing all sorts of rumours about Brixton's Favourite Yup Bar closing down and the old landlord coming back into the frame, but can anyone confirm this?
I've heard some other rather more unpleasant stuff, but I won't be posting it up here.
PM me then :)
quimcunx
14-11-2007, 00:51
that's the one beside the satay bar, isn't it? I quite liked it the last time I was in, a good while ago. I'd be receptive to a pm though. :)
Sorry! I'm not going to start spreading gossip on this rumour until it gets a bit firmed up.
is the same living bar that had all the planning problems a few years ago. didnt the owner or someone pretending to be a chef there register here?
Mrs Magpie
14-11-2007, 08:33
As I was coming home last night I felt really ill but was cheered almost to the point of euphoria by seeing it boarded up and various bailliffy looking types overseeing it being boarded up and then photographing said boarding-up.....
Donna Ferentes
14-11-2007, 08:35
Why would they need to photograph it?
so that they can't be accused of failing to do their job when it's squatted. :D
bluestreak
14-11-2007, 08:52
Why would they need to photograph it?
Pride in a job well done?
Mrs Magpie
14-11-2007, 08:55
is the same living bar that had all the planning problems a few years ago. Well they took out the original windows and replaced them with horrid MDF type frames and there was a planning enforcement thingy to put the originals back and it was ignored....There was trouble about these huge air-con things that they installed at the back that kept the residents in the flats behind awake too.....
ChrisFilter
14-11-2007, 09:07
Weren't there continual allegations of a racist door policy as well? 'Black quotas' and the like?
I overheard someone on the train last night saying she's having her birthday party there next week. Poor girl! ;)
mccliche
14-11-2007, 09:18
they used to have glasses of free smarties and peanuts at the bar which was great
whenever i went with my bird it was always proepr quiet during happy-hour...and then they under-charged us a few times too. prob not a huge surprise it is not lasting. hopefully soemthing good will take its place
As I was coming home last night I felt really ill but was cheered almost to the point of euphoria by seeing it boarded up and various bailliffy looking types overseeing it being boarded up and then photographing said boarding-up.....Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.
mccliche
14-11-2007, 10:14
Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.
pizza restaurant or starbucks ? ;)
Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.
that doesn't leave many options!
:D
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:02
Favourite Yup Bar
FOCPMSL...local meat market more like it. You want a Yup bar in Brixton, you've got Zee and that place with the Private members area above it on Clapham Park Road opposite the Tesco. Tongue&Groove & Plan B are more 'Yup bar' than Living...
they used to have glasses of free smarties and peanuts at the bar which was great
Aye, just dont think about how many unwashed hands have been in the glass before yours :D
I think I've only been there once, not really my cup of tea.
Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?
CharlieAddict
14-11-2007, 11:08
only went there twice.
enjoyed the free peanuts at the bar and the shots of smarties on the tables.
beer was flat.
and the place was mostly empty. dead. crap atmosphere.
if that was a yup bar, then places like mango landing is defo more nathan barley - ie geek pie.
Tongue&Groove & Plan B are more 'Yup bar' than Living...Tongue&Groove has long gone - closed down because of drugs'n'fighting (but no rock'n'roll) - although what's replaced it doesn't look particularly inviting.
There was a *ton* of police streaming into the Living Bah a few weeks ago, btw.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:10
...
Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?
Never seemed that way whenever I've been in there of a Saturday nite after a few beers and a couple of pills...
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:10
...
There was a *ton* of police streaming into the Living Bah a few weeks ago, btw.
Again, something you don't see happening in 'yup bars' IME (and I've got the experience :D)
tarannau
14-11-2007, 11:11
if that was a yup bar, then places like mango landing is defo more nathan barley - ie geek pie.
Lot of laptops admittedly, but it's more Kids City than Barley territory most of the time. It's one of the few bars I've been to where kids can sometime outnumber the adults 3 to 1.
potential
14-11-2007, 11:15
Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.
it was busy, cheap to organise a party there never any trouble...
why are you all gloating at its demise ?
what do you want then it to be boarded up then broken into somewhere the crack dealers can go to smack-up ???
every shop cant all be a free-trade juice-bar come unity-peace and pride black&white unite , drug users help centre ?
I think I've only been there once, not really my cup of tea.
Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?
Yes, this was a few years ago now, when it was in the hands of the former owner, Mr Merrett. Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8252
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:17
The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally, there's a good mix of students, office and manual workers etc...I too share the bafflement at the sneery tone toward it and the gloating...
The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally, there's a good mix of students, office and manual workers etc...I too share the bafflement at the sneery tone toward it and the gloating...
Wasn't always like that, apparently - if you read the thread I linked, you can see the History the place has on these boards.
Mrs Magpie
14-11-2007, 11:19
It's because of the way the owner treated people locally.
Yes, this was a few years ago now, when it was in the hands of the former owner, Mr Merrett. Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8252
Yeah, I thought it must have been on here I heard that.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:22
Wasn't always like that, apparently - if you read the thread I linked, you can see the History the place has on these boards.
Hmm, seems that 'history' is the right word. I think the last 2 times I was in there was about 3 years ago (counts...was seeing Shan then...)yup, would've been this time of year 3 years ago, the Xmas before I met Wrysmile...have walked past it loads since and always seen a crowd not at all unlike the people who visit dance bars all over the UK (altho they would generally be the types who would commit the cardinal sins of buying coffee from Starbucks or Costa, possibly drinking in a *CHAIN PUB*, or eat KFC or Macs...)
The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally,You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.
I don't know anyone from Brixton who regularly drank there and the bar was held in more or less universal contempt by many because of the attitude of its owners. Do a search on these boards and you'll see what I mean.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:41
Hmm, and when was the last time you were in there ed?
And I hate to break it to you, but there are about 100,000 other people who live in Brixton and it's environs who don't post on Urban - indeed, probably those same people who eat in Macs, KFC etc regularly. These boards are not the be all and end all of Brixton's population. I mean, how many people regularly visit Zee bar here? Not very many I suspect, but the times I've been in there it's always been busy with people whom, when I have asked them where they're from, are overwhelmingly from...Brixton...
I mean aside from someone who lives in a city using the phrase out-of-towners being the funniest thing ever, and evidence of seriously parochial thinking...
potential
14-11-2007, 11:41
[QUOTE=editor]You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.
QUOTE]
How dare these outsiders spend money in brixton, shoot em i say !!!
why dont you just turn the argument around
ie... a load of brixtonites go to a pub in battersea and then the locals start
whith the same drivel ? oh them lot there not local they look different why dont you fuck off back to your own country is that what your sayin
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:43
Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.
Excellent resurrection of one of Urbans classic arguements.
Maybe we could let Anna Key back in just for this one thread :D
potential
14-11-2007, 11:46
Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.
you are dead right more of a mix than the albert, ouch !!!
Excellent resurrection of one of Urbans classic arguements.
Maybe we could let Anna Key back in just for this one thread :D
You think he's not reading the thread alrady? :)
Reliving past glories, swilling a glass of wiskey, telling all-comers the awe-inspiring tales of old.
How dare these outsiders spend money in brixton, shoot em i say !!!
why dont you just turn the argument around Hey, knee jerk boy. Where did I say I had a problem with people coming into Brixton for a night out? Mind you, I do have a problem with people coming into Brixton to buy drugs, and I couldn't help but notice the large amount of dealers hanging around the place, or the increasing amount of fights breaking out there.
There was a massive incident there about two weeks ago that involved three police vans worth of cops steaming in. And I've heard of some awful other things happening too.
So, no, that's not what I want in my street, thanks. How about you?
oh them lot there not local they look different why dont you fuck off back to your own country is that what your sayinHave you any idea what a prick you've just made of yourself by making up all that offensive bullshit?
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 11:57
and I couldn't help but notice the large amount of dealers hanging around the place, or the increasing amount of fights breaking out there.
On coldharbour lane? What next - close KFC and Woolworths cos the density of dealers is higher outside those places as well? There are incidents where pigvans need to be called all over Brixton, not just outside Living.
Maybe Mass should be shut down as well - lots of dealers congregate in the peace garden I've found...
Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.Which was when, exactly? I pass right outside the bar just about every single weekend at all hours and have a pretty good idea of the kind of crowd the place attracts. Seen more than a few scuffles recently too.
When was the last time you swung by then?
On coldharbour lane? What next - close KFC and Woolworths cos the density of dealers is higher outside those places as well? There are incidents where pigvans need to be called all over Brixton, not just outside Living.Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?
It may well have been 'upmarket' back when it first opened. 'Big Name' DJ's and all that, guestlists and taxi'd in posh money. But as far as I can make out, these days it's your completely average town center bar/club with loud shit music and pricey drinks. Everywhere has one.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 12:02
3 Saturdays ago, about 11am.
Where I live - Tulse Hill - there's been a shooting, a stabbing at my local, and when I was out buying some munchies last Saturday the whole of the White Hart had turfed out into the street to watch a couple of people kicking off...
I pass right outside the bar just about every single weekend at all hours and have a pretty good idea of the kind of crowd the place attracts.
What, you go and ask them all where they come from? Whether they've bought some drugs from a local street dealer?
I know, there are loads of touts and dealers out whenever there's a gig on at the Academy...let's get arsey and close that down as well!
potential
14-11-2007, 12:04
You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab..
I don't know anyone from Brixton who regularly drank there .
just because you dont like it i there, it has brought many a good clean nigth out for locals non-locals...
bringing up one incident is a bit sad eh... like kyser soyse said living bah on the scale of drug dealing bars in brixton i would say bottom , im right yeah !
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 12:06
Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?
In Brixton? I can't, but vans AND a car showed up at the White Hart.
I'm not suggesting it is an everyday occurence...but you seem to be singling out one bar and saying it's uniquely gifted at attracting trouble, the 'wrong sort' of people in Brixton, whereas IME it's little different from 100 other similar places not just in London, but all over the UK.
potential
14-11-2007, 12:08
Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?
last night at 10-10.30 the peace garden van pulled up one came up rushcroft rd, two guys ran like forrest gump up brixton hill
so living is a big drug problem in brixton....
yeah your right i dont like tourist drug buyers or local drug buyers...
thats not the argument the living bah is
ChrisFilter
14-11-2007, 12:14
Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.
Yeah, but mud sticks. It got a name for itself amongst the Brixton 'community' (as opposed to middle-class white kids like us) as a problem and it was never going to lose that name.
I suspect the cheering on this thread is a hangover from a time when Mr Merritt was in charged, and would have been considered a victory against a wanker.
Mrs Magpie
14-11-2007, 12:15
How do I hate thee, let me count the ways.....
I hate it because when my daughter fainted nearby they tried to charge for the glass of water they were asked for by a first-aider, I hate it because when I went in there and got a pint of guinness half of it was head and they charged well over the odds, I hate it because someone came out of there and tried to sell my young son powders when he was waiting for a bus, I hate it because the owner was boorish and slapped my friend on the arse because she was 'only a waitress', I hate it because when there was a stabbing outside they washed away the evidence from the crime scene before the police arrived (and then called me a liar even though I'd seen it happen with my own eyes), I hate it because friends of mine who attempted to go there were turned away for very iffy reasons, I hate it because they flouted planning laws and enforcement orders.....ooh I could go on but I'm ill today and the effort is tiring me and I'm just glad it's gone.
just because you dont like it i there, it has brought many a good clean nigth out for locals non-locals...
bringing up one incident is a bit sad eh... like kyser soyse said living bah on the scale of drug dealing bars in brixton i would say bottom , im right yeah !Thing is, you don't know half the story of the place, or why it managed to successfully piss off so many locals, but you'll be hard pressed to find a business or resident along that street that has a good word to say about the place.
Now why do you think that might be? Any ideas?
Oh, and an apology for that offensive and uncalled for racist slur might be in order too, you know.
3 Saturdays ago, about 11am.Bit early, no?
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 12:20
Sorry, 11pm...
...ooh I could go on but I'm ill today and the effort is tiring me and I'm just glad it's gone.I could add a lot more too if I could be arsed.
potential
14-11-2007, 12:37
Thing
Oh, and an apology for that offensive and uncalled for racist slur might be in order too, you know.
you said outsiders comig into brixton and staggering out straight into cabs at 3am.... whats wrong with that ???? you wernt a local long time ago ?
i turned you argument arount swapping brixton for battersea..
you just think local bars for local people......
potential
14-11-2007, 12:44
just read your no34 point im off to work....
local bars for local people, your suggesting
i turned you argument arount swapping brixton for battersea..
you just think local bars for local people......Here's what you actually said, you deceitful little shit.
oh them lot there not local they look different why dont you fuck off back to your own country is that what your sayin"Look different"...."fuck off back to your own country"...
I do hope you'll have the grace to apologise for making up this offensive, racist drivel.
racist, what? it was a metaphor.
Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.
I agree that the area doesn't need more upmarket flats, but what's wrong with a nailbar or fried chicken place?
CharlieAddict
14-11-2007, 14:34
what brixton needs is a decent-cheapy pho restaurant.
or a health store selling organic produces and herbal drugs.
Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.
asian?
the only asian people i see when i was there or any pub in brixton is me!
okay, the you got the odd night when there's one other...:rolleyes:
racist, what? it was a metaphor."look different...." "fuck off back to your own country...."
Sure. Great metaphor.
Not even the slightest suggestion of racism there. Oh no.
"look different...." "fuck off back to your own country...."
Sure. Great metaphor.
For racism, that is,
I can see what he was trying to say - that your appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from.
The old thread linked above gives it some context though.
It was an exageration to make a point. If you thought he was actually calling you a racist, then you either read it wrong, or just took the maximum offence possible on purpose.
I can see what he was trying to say - that your appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from.Could you tell me where I "appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from"?
I only mentioned punters taxiing into the Bar in response to kyser_soze's claim that it's stuffed full of locals.
Try looking back through the thread.
It was an exageration to make a point. If you thought he was actually calling you a racist, then you either read it wrong, or just took the maximum offence possible on purpose.I don't like people stuffing words in my mouth, especially when it's versed in racist language (and you would agree that a phrase like " "fuck off back to your own country...." is often to be found in the racist repertoire, yes?).
Either way, his 'argument,' sorry, 'metaphor' is bullshit. Oh well.
FOCPMSL...local meat market more like it.
Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too. I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.
And I like Mango Landin'. Does that make me a bad person? :(
The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.
I don't know anyone from Brixton who regularly drank there and the bar was held in more or less universal contempt by many because of the attitude of its owners. Do a search on these boards and you'll see what I mean.
The identification of 'out-of-towners' coupled with 'good reasons why locals stopped drinking there' seems value laden. If it was not intended so I accept that, but think you should accept how it appears.
Could you tell me where I "appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from"?
I only mentioned punters taxiing into the Bar in response to kyser_soze's claim that it's stuffed full of locals.
Try looking back through the thread.
For clarity my post above was a response to yours here.
The identification of 'out-of-towners' coupled with 'good reasons why locals stopped drinking there' seems value laden. If it was not intended so I accept that, but think you should accept how it appears.Mrs M had already offered some of the good reasons why locals stopped drinking there (post #10), as had Chris Filter in post #11 and anyone with local knowledge would know of many other reasons too.
Errol's son
14-11-2007, 15:34
I would have thought that Living did benefit some of the other establishments on Coldharbour.
I didn't like Living as I am a bit old and the music was too loud and there weren't many seats.
So the few times I went, I ended up leaving and going for a meal in that Ethiopian place.
I would have thought Living brought them a few customers and that noodle shop.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 15:37
Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too. I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.
And I like Mango Landin'. Does that make me a bad person? :(
On a Saturday night, definitely, but none compare with the splendour that was the Clapham Grand...that was almost like being back home in Essex for me...
I would have thought that Living did benefit some of the other establishments on Coldharbour.I can honestly say I've never spoken to a local business/resident that's had a good word to say about the place for a wide variety of reasons.
But it's not really appropriate to post up what I've heard here (happy to tell people if I see them in the pub though)
so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?
so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?
Well, surely it should get restored to it original beautiful facade. It's listed isn't it?
so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?Do you think that's a suitable use for a pub that has served the community for over a 100 years?
Why do you think Brixton needs another nailbar?
tarannau
14-11-2007, 16:34
Well it's not as though we're short of old pub buildings. It's the lack of decent pubs that are the problem.
Do you think that's a suitable use for a pub that has served the community for over a 100 years?
Why do you think Brixton needs another nailbar?
you brought nailbars and fried chicken shops into the discussion in order to tell us that you'd 'hate' to see it become one. I don't understand what you have against them.
tarannau
14-11-2007, 16:40
I'm actually with Newbie on this one. I'm not the greatest fan of stuck-on nails, but you can't doubt the appeal of Nail Bars (Or fried chicken) places to the local community.
The chances of a nail bar choosing such an overspecced property are, unsurprisingly, low.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 16:43
I'm also intrigued by this idea of pubs 'serving' the community. How do they serve the community, other then being places where you can legally buy an addictive and debilitating drug? I wonder how many women have been hit over the years when their old man's come back from the community pub pissed, having spent a week's wages in there?
I'm also intrigued by this idea of pubs 'serving' the community. How do they serve the community, other then being places where you can legally buy an addictive and debilitating drug? You don't think pubs can play a part in a local community's social life?
What a bizarre opinion.
you brought nailbars and fried chicken shops into the discussion in order to tell us that you'd 'hate' to see it become one. I don't understand what you have against them.I've got nothing against nail bars but I fancy Brixton reached saturation point some time ago and would hate to see a struggling business let the fine old building go to rack and ruin as a result. It's been trashed enough as the Living Bar after all.
Same applies to fried chicken shops and, to be honest, I'm fed up wading through fly-covered, rat attracting discarded chicken bones and plastic boxes and bags every time I leave my house.
I believe as a local resident I'm entitled to hold an opinion on the subject.
tarannau
14-11-2007, 16:54
Pubs do serve the community though. Much of my family's early life in this country was aided by 'Brian from the pub' and his network of plumbers,painters and repairmen from the local that he could summon at short notice and at low cost.
The same applies now, albeit to a lesser extent. I find the assortment of local workmen, friends and acquaintances built up over the years immensely helpful - there's a ready made support network that you can step into when needed. It's not much I know, but it was kind of reassuring that in the aftermath of the the London bus bombings, everyone left work early and headed straight to the local, w - not just to drink themselves silly, but to check on others and socialise. It was one of the busiest days seen in there, with the fabled Dunkirk spirit much in evidence. Long may that continue.
kyser_soze
14-11-2007, 16:54
You don't think pubs can play a part in a local community's social life?
What a bizarre opinion.
I'd like to know what and how they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.
I'd like to know what and how they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.Isn't it blazingly obvious?
tarannau
14-11-2007, 17:00
And you don't think shared experiences and events can help build community Kyser?
I've still massively fond memories of eating bacon sarnies at 9 in the morning whilst watcching the last World Cup in the pub. And of the joyful scenes after beating Argentina - a seemingly never ending conga snaking down Brixton Hill, traffic stopped and smiling, horns a beeping and massive grins all round.
On the other side,a number of wakes have helped properly see off much loved members of the community.
I believe as a local resident I'm entitled to hold an opinion on the subject.
of course, I just didn't really understand it.
I'd like to the building taken out of the night economy and brought into the mainstream, daytime, sphere where it can provide decent employment opportunities. A nailbar is actually quite a good example of just that, although I have to agree it may not be the ideal premises.
I'd like to the building taken out of the night economy and brought into the mainstream, daytime, sphere where it can provide decent employment opportunities. Oh come on! Nailbars are hardly big employers providing great, well paid opportunities to the local community.
bar work's not much better
Errol's son
14-11-2007, 17:43
Perhaps it should become an estate agency?
Estate agents aren't too badly paid are they?
tarannau
14-11-2007, 17:47
What retail shops do by that measure? If anything nail bars should be fairly profitable - hell, constantly maintaining those nails is a crack like addiction.
Equally, quite often nail bars offer 'chairs' on a self employed basis, so there's a degree of flexibiity and incentive for individuals. Surely better than a minimum wage Saturday job down WH Smiths?
Errol's son
14-11-2007, 17:55
There has been a lot of financial investment by private equity firms into nail bars, admittedly the higher end ones found in places like central London and the nicer parts of Manhatten.
So there must be good money in manicures, just maybe not in Brixton.
Perhaps it should become an estate agency?
Estate agents aren't too badly paid are they?That would appear to be what some people want. :(
well no, they're hardly the economic salvation for the area. But then what is?
IMO the night economy has been little short of a disaster, there's very little left in the way of big employers, except the council. There's a clear gap between the range of jobs for the well qualified and low skilled, minimum wage, zero prospects. Let's not look towards jobs that tend to draw in people from elsewhere (the 'creative industry' nonsense) and try to consider the people who want or need to work locally. Eg people with kids to look after.
What's needed is jobs that are reasonable, decent and honest, that are meaningful to the people that already live round here, and that fulfill a role in this community. A nailbar does all of those things, in a smallscale way.
brixtonvilla
14-11-2007, 19:30
I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term general, please) don't go in them...
I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term general, please) don't go in them...
Me neither. People must use them or they wouldn't be there, just like The Living Bah when people stop, they shut.
A lot of Brixton urbanites drink in The Albert which is hardly representative of Brixtons community either imo.
I'd like to know what and how they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.
:eek:
Are you serious?
Mr Retro
15-11-2007, 09:15
Pubs do serve the community though. Much of my family's early life in this country was aided by 'Brian from the pub' and his network of plumbers,painters and repairmen from the local that he could summon at short notice and at low cost.
The same applies now, albeit to a lesser extent. I find the assortment of local workmen, friends and acquaintances built up over the years immensely helpful - there's a ready made support network that you can step into when needed. It's not much I know, but it was kind of reassuring that in the aftermath of the the London bus bombings, everyone left work early and headed straight to the local, w - not just to drink themselves silly, but to check on others and socialise. It was one of the busiest days seen in there, with the fabled Dunkirk spirit much in evidence. Long may that continue.
I agree with every point there.
I don't really disagree either, but it's a shade romantic, isn't it, in a Britain where the medics are highlighting the rise in alcohol poisoning amongst groups with traditionally low problems- particularly women, the under 30s and children.
I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term general, please) don't go in them..."Vitriol"?!
Where? :confused:
I haven't got anything against nailbars at all, but I can't say I'm for pubs being turned into them. Are you?
tarannau
15-11-2007, 09:45
Well, I don't think it's really romantic, more stressing some of the positive community aspect of local boozers. Nobody's denying that there can be negatives too.
FWIW mind, I strongly suspect the rise in alcohol problems with the groups newbie lists couldn't easily be levelled at local pubs, more town centre drinking barns and drinking much cheaper tins/alcohol at home. If anything the days of all day boozing in the local are much in decline.
Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too. I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.
And I like Mango Landin'. Does that make me a bad person? :(
How very dare you smear Croydon is such a way. Please do come and have a pint or five in a selection of very nice places.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 09:53
Although, to be fair TC, you could for a very unpleasant pint in a larger selection of places.
Croydon's often put down a little too easily, but it's got a fair bit of nightlife (particularly in terms of clubs) that plumbs the depths of meat market desperation
What's needed is jobs that are reasonable, decent and honest, that are meaningful to the people that already live round here, and that fulfill a role in this community. A nailbar does all of those things, in a smallscale way.So does a pub.
I am rather pleased to see the demise of the Living bar. If the DogAwful went the same way I would be chuffed.
I would like to see the return of the Coach & Horses pub in the same style it previously had, stuffing coming out of seats, TV with the racing on, a selection of slightly shite but cheap beers, bush weed and sometimes lambs bread for any vaguely regularpunter, and always, but always a lady in the corner drinking half a guniness.
Ergo i am an old fart.
Although, to be fair TC, you could for a very unpleasant pint in a larger selection of places.
Croydon's often put down a little too easily, but it's got a fair bit of nightlife (particularly in terms of clubs) that plumbs the depths of meat market desperation
I'm too old for Croydons clubs so you might be right. There are loads and loads of really nice pubs, bars and eateries though.
I know I fucked up big style in 2001 when I organised a Croydon meetup and never showed. (:o ) but I may have to do it again but this time with bells and whistles.
I am rather pleased to see the demise of the Living bar. If the DogAwful went the same way I would be chuffed. The Dogstar has massive potential to be a brilliant local asset. With its three floors it could operate as a rehearsal space in the daytimes for bands and perhaps local kids' drama groups, the top floor could be a meeting space for community groups and the ground floor could be a great venue for bands and perhaps the odd local drama production (Brixton - with its great theatrical history - is still starved of anywhere for actors to perform - it would be great to have the traditional Christmas pantomime restored).
Or, on the other hand, we could have lots of Deejays pumping out the same thing every night.
Well, I don't think it's really romantic, more stressing some of the positive community aspect of local boozers. Nobody's denying that there can be negatives too.
FWIW mind, I strongly suspect the rise in alcohol problems with the groups newbie lists couldn't easily be levelled at local pubs, more town centre drinking barns and drinking much cheaper tins/alcohol at home. If anything the days of all day boozing in the local are much in decline.
no argument there, it's the trendy, town center places we're discussing though.
"I haven't got anything against nailbars at all, but I can't say I'm for pubs being turned into them. Are you?
so why use the word 'hate'?
and no, pubs do not fulfill the same role as daytime service establishments.
The Dogstar has massive potential to be a brilliant local asset. With its three floors it could operate as a rehearsal space in the daytimes for bands and perhaps local kids' drama groups, the top floor could be a meeting space for community groups and the ground floor could be a great venue for bands and perhaps the odd local drama production (Brixton - with its great theatrical history - is still starved of anywhere for actors to perform - it would be great to have the traditional Christmas pantomime restored).
Or, on the other hand, we could have lots of Deejays pumping out the same thing every night.
Blimey that sounds like a plan. :)
Fancy fronting it if funding could be secured? :)
I've got £20 here. I'm sure I could scrape a few more together. Anyone with me?
so why use the word 'hate'? Oh come on - don't attempt to twist my words! Just because "I'd hate" to see something happen, that doesn't mean I actually "hate" the person or thing. It's a figure of speech.and no, pubs do not fulfill the same role as daytime service establishments.They are open in the daytimes, you know, employing staff, serving food to workers and providing a place for old folks to sit down in the warm and have a beer/coffee.
Blimey that sounds like a plan. Occasionally, there's been managers at the Dogstar who appeared open to ideas about creative uses for the building, but inevitably they get booted out.
It really could be a great community resource, but it's not going to happen.
The irony is that Cooltan was almost perfect for such uses and offered real community resources (dark rooms/rehearsal space/cafe etc), but that's been flattened into dust now :(
I'm not twisting any words at all.
You brought nailbars into this discussion purely to tell us you'd 'hate' to see the building turned into one. I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment.
If you don't want to be questioned about the words you write then you ought to choose them more carefully.
You brought nailbars into this discussion purely to tell us you'd 'hate' to see the building turned into one. I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment. You know, some might think that there's a bit of a nasty agenda going on here with the way you're selectively quoting my words.
Here's my actual comment: "I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever."
Are you going to "explore quite what sort of unconscious factors" were behind me mentioning such an "unnecessarily loaded sentiment" (what?!) as luxury flats too?
Or will you carry on ignoring that one because you're unable to slip in any unpleasant suggestions and slurs implying racism and class?
Here's a clue for you: I mentioned nail bars because they're one of the fastest growing shops around Brixton. Just like fried chicken fast food stores and luxury flats.
:rolleyes:
Errol's son
15-11-2007, 11:13
but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class
Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?
what on earth agenda am I supposed to have?
if you look back you'll find I agreed with you about luxury flats (few people who aren't property developers or estate agents would disagree, I think) and asked about both nailbars and fried chicken places. Your objection to fried chicken shops (something about wading through discarded bones) isfair enough but you had, frankly, nothing to justify your (imo) unreasonable targetting of nailbars. Still haven't, except that they're popular and don't appeal to you.
I'm not looking for an argument, but like I said, if you don't want your words challenged then you ought to be more careful about how you choose them.
Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?
my observation, yes and probably. Do you observe differently?
CharlieAddict
15-11-2007, 11:16
I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment.
i thought most of the nailbars in and around brixton/streatham hill are ran by vietnamese and chinese immigrants...
tarannau
15-11-2007, 11:18
Yep, I'd go with that.
There customers do tend to be predominantly black mind
CharlieAddict
15-11-2007, 11:20
but the workers aren't
Anyway.... anyone know why it closed? Is it definitely gone for ever or just shut down for a bit?
Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
In Brixton, overwhelmingly so.
if you look back you'll find I agreed with you about luxury flats (few people who aren't property developers or estate agents would disagree, I think) and asked about both nailbars and fried chicken places. Your objection to fried chicken shops (something about wading through discarded bones) isfair enough but you had, frankly, nothing to justify your (imo) unreasonable targetting of nailbars. Still haven't, except that they're popular and don't appeal to you. I'd like you to tell me the results of exploring "quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment" when I mentioned my preference to not have the Coach and Horses replaced by "luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever," please.
Can you do that now?
potential
15-11-2007, 11:30
starbucks ? serves the local community, safe for people to meet up no litter or chicken bones, well used by both female and males alike... perfect
dont go on to shout me down with independant cafe bar,
cos people who go to starbucks go there cos they know exactly what theyll get...
cos people who go to starbucks go there cos they know exactly what theyll get...Isn't that just a bit depressing, like when people travel thousands of miles to a foreign culture and then go straight into the nearest McDs.
A lot of Brixton urbanites drink in The Albert which is hardly representative of Brixtons community either imo.Does any Brixton pub? How would you accurately "represent Brixton's community" anyway? Since when was it one homogeneous blob?
The Albert reflects one aspect of Brixton's community, as does the Satay Bar, Effra, Beehive etc etc.
Isn't the beauty of it that we're all from different cultures doing our own thing and getting along, yet interacting on different levels everyday?
potential
15-11-2007, 11:39
your so right but ? thats what makes them popular...
i would never go in them personaly but each to there own.
my flat mate used to use them all the time, shed take her laptop down free wireless connection , wouldnt be bothered, was let alone to do her work.
was spotless clean
and could get receipts to claim back work expenses.
there isnt another place in brixton to do that so it would serve the community
Errol's son
15-11-2007, 11:42
my observation, yes and probably. Do you observe differently?
I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.
I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.
If you walk past a branch of Nails Inc http://www.nailsinc.com/?Page=corporate you will see women of all ethnicities having manicures and Nails Inc is the largest nail bar in the world by number of branches.
Due to the number of blacks in Brixton, naturally there is more demand for nail bars that cater to a back clientele. But the nail bar sector is growing rapidly and is not confined to Brixton solely.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 11:45
your so right but ? thats what makes them popular...
i would never go in them personaly but each to there own.
my flat mate used to use them all the time, shed take her laptop down free wireless connection , wouldnt be bothered, was let alone to do her work.
was spotless clean
and could get receipts to claim back work expenses.
there isnt another place in brixton to do that so it would serve the community
What are you on about? There's load of pubs in Brxton - clean ones and all - that offer free wifi?
I'd like you to tell me the results of exploring "quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment" when I mentioned my preference to not have the Coach and Horses replaced by "luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever," please.
Can you do that now?
no, because I didn't challenge you hating 'luxury lifestyle apartments' or 'whatever'?
I'd like you to tell me what sort of agenda I've got.
Can you do that now?
or shall we just move on?
Minnie_the_Minx
15-11-2007, 11:48
I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.
I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.
If you walk past a branch of Nails Inc http://www.nailsinc.com/?Page=corporate you will see women of all ethnicities having manicures and Nails Inc is the largest nail bar in the world by number of branches.
Due to the number of blacks in Brixton, naturally there is more demand for nail bars that cater to a back clientele. But the nail bar sector is growing rapidly and is not confined to Brixton solely.
I know bugger all about nail bars as I barely have any nails :o and have never been for a manicure.
Are black womens' nails different to white nails then that more nail bars are needed? :confused:
potential
15-11-2007, 11:50
What are you on about? There's load of pubs in Brxton - clean ones and all - that offer free wifi?
yeah pubs, but it was for her work ? dont think her employer would agree with her spending a couple of hours every other day down the pub...
she needed receipts as well
I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.
I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.
If you walk past a branch of Nails Inc http://www.nailsinc.com/?Page=corporate you will see women of all ethnicities having manicures and Nails Inc is the largest nail bar in the world by number of branches.
Due to the number of blacks in Brixton, naturally there is more demand for nail bars that cater to a back clientele. But the nail bar sector is growing rapidly and is not confined to Brixton solely.
yeah, fair enough, although the nearest Nails Inc appears to be in the West End. If Charlie is right that the local bars are run by people from far Eastern backgrounds then I stand corrected.
I'd like you to tell me what sort of agenda I've got.How about you explain what you meant when you questioned "what sort of unconscious factors" were behind the supposedly "unnecessarily loaded sentiment" of me mentioning that I would rather the Coach and Horses remained a pub instead of following the recent retail/property development trends in Brixton (illustrated with examples of fast food stores, nail bars and luxury apartments)?
And perhaps you might explain why you felt the need to bang on about "the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class" and explain its relevance, and then explain why you're not interested in the 'demographics' of other possible users for the building.
The nail bar conversation has been waiting to happen on here for ages IMO. The phrase "hope it doesn't become another nail bar" always crops up whenever one business, whatever it may be, closes down. But it's always struck me that if another nail bar does open, and it stays open, then that'll be because there's demand within the local community. So who are we to deny that?
The parrallel with pubs is a pretty strong one, as both provide a social focal point.
I wonder how many pubs there are in Brixton, and how many nail bars?
I'm really glad I don't get into arguments with you, ed.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 12:00
yeah pubs, but it was for her work ? dont think her employer would agree with her spending a couple of hours every other day down the pub...
she needed receipts as well
Sorry, thought you were still bibbling about pubs.
Still, how's about the Lounge, Mango Landing and others. They're quite capable of prining out a receipt.
But it's always struck me that if another nail bar does open, and it stays open, then that'll be because there's demand within the local community. So who are we to deny that?I could be wrong, but I think they often get a low rent deal (like the shop opposite me) and, of course, their overheads are a lot, lot lower than a pub.
I'm really glad I don't get into arguments with you, ed.Don't mind lively arguments, but really don't like underhand slurs suggesting there's some sort of "unconscious" racism or whatever going on.
Ianw has more or less mentioned the same thing as me about nail bars, so I wonder if newbie will be along to "explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment."
you made what I thought was a contentious statement, and I challenged it and I've explained why. Since then you've been blustering about my agenda because it's quite obvious that you can't supply any real reason for singling out nailbars as an example of places you 'hate'. It's also obvious that you can't spell out my agenda because I haven't got one, I simply responded to your words on the screen in front of me.
Yossarian
15-11-2007, 12:14
People getting their nails done still have a hand free to drink with - how about turning the place into "The Nail Bar"?
potential
15-11-2007, 12:16
Sorry, thought you were still bibbling about pubs.
Still, how's about the Lounge, Mango Landing and others. They're quite capable of prining out a receipt.
that would have been great, my friend stayed ere with me for a few weeks,
and every so often would work at home, and asked me if there was somewhere she could work in peace etc and asked of there was a starbucks or coffee shop where she could walk down use the phone and get e-mail cofirmations.... but i didnt know any so she had to go to clapham or somewhere... that shouldnt be so , brixton should sevre every demographic imo
I could be wrong, but I think they often get a low rent deal (like the shop opposite me) and, of course, their overheads are a lot, lot lower than a pub.
Even so, I'd rather see a thriving nail bar serving the local community in the Living building, than a crappy bar for postcode tourists. If Living was replaced by a nail bar, I'd be quite happy. I'd rather walk past that than what was essentially a gated pub.
potential: The Ritzy cafe would have been ideal.
People getting their nails done still have a hand free to drink with - how about turning the place into "The Nail Bar"?
You're on a roll this week! Two posts that have made me laugh out loud.
Even so, I'd rather see a thriving nail bar serving the local community in the Living building, than a crappy bar for postcode tourists. If Living was replaced by a nail bar, I'd be quite happy. I'd rather walk past that than what was essentially a gated pub.
a gated pub?? was Living that bad in recent times? I know it's not yours or my pint of beer but it was just another cattlemarket bar and everywhere has them
Does any Brixton pub? How would you accurately "represent Brixton's community" anyway? Since when was it one homogeneous blob?
The Albert reflects one aspect of Brixton's community, as does the Satay Bar, Effra, Beehive etc etc.
Isn't the beauty of it that we're all from different cultures doing our own thing and getting along, yet interacting on different levels everyday?
well yes exactly.
but to read some of the reactions on here to how Brixtons community is changing you wouldn't think so.
the Living Bah serves (did serve?!) a Brixton demographic, one a lot of people on here don't like, but one that does exist and is growing.
the Living Bah serves (did serve?!) a Brixton demographic, one a lot of people on here don't like, but one that does exist and is growing.
part of the reason it's growing is that there have been conscious decisions to build Brixton as a night destination for young people. The first I remember of it was when the police sponsored the reopening of the Atlantic as a completely different place, serving a very different clientelle. Since then there's been a gradual increase in the clubs and other initiatives which have acted as something of a magnet, both for people to travel to for the evening and to move into the area.
That's gone hand in hand with all sorts of changes- most notably escalating property prices and rents, but also the decline of the market and a change in the profile of those who live here. Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 12:44
I don't really see the issue of Brixton 'night economy' as particularly relevant to rising property and land values.
After all Streatham, once the supposed 'west end of the South' has been shedding its hefty number of night venues swiftly over recent years, whilst property values have risen every bit as quickly, if not quicker than Brixton, in recent times.
Not convinced the night economy in Brixton has led to the downturn of the market either. Sadly, the reasons for that seem more widespread.
That's gone hand in hand with all sorts of changes- most notably escalating property prices and rents, but also the decline of the market and a change in the profile of those who live here. Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.
no i doubt you are tbh. i don't like a lot of it myself.
but this is what happens in a lot of areas. a run down area attracts squatters/cheap rentals, they make it seen as 'edgy and cool', licenses are easy to come by for late venues, a bit of an alternative scene grows, people are attracted to living in the area. some years later you have the situation Brixton is finding itself in now regarding the venues/nightlife etc
I was in Bristol at the weekend and the same thing is happening to St Pauls. Developers are sniffing round it keen to cash in on the 'edginess' the conflation of poverty and squatters/cheap rents has bought.
No, I'm not wholly convinced and there are multiple factors at play. The shifting age profile is happening all across London, although it is a little more pronounced locally. That's partially because the schools have been so poor, which serves to drive out those with kids, but it's also, I think, partially because young people seek to bve in and around Brixton because it's an attractive place to play, but not work, in.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 12:54
No, I'm not wholly convinced and there are multiple factors at play. The shifting age profile is happening all across London, although it is a little more pronounced locally. That's partially because the schools have been so poor, which serves to drive out those with kids, but it's also, I think, partially because young people seek to bve in and around Brixton because it's an attractive place to play, but not work, in.
It's always been a little like that, well at least for 30 years or more - a leading reason for the migration outwards by the original commonwealth migrants and others. And before that it was a leading theatre and shopping district, hardly a restful place.
Perhaps the widespread rise in property values and home ownership fization has helped accelerate the process mind.
Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.
tarannau
15-11-2007, 13:04
Well, someone still owns the houses as an investment mind. It's just not the people living in them..
:)
Errol's son
15-11-2007, 13:06
I know bugger all about nail bars as I barely have any nails :o and have never been for a manicure.
Are black womens' nails different to white nails then that more nail bars are needed? :confused:
Black women often want a different style to white women.
But there is room in the market for more nail bars whether they tend to serve a predominantly white clientele, a predominantly black clientele or a mixed clientele.
They are opening up across the country, not just in Brixton...
I think it is to do with the growth in Spas etc... a lot of people are spending more on "pampering" themselves.
quimcunx
15-11-2007, 13:19
Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.
edited to correct.
When I bought my flat 8 years ago, 13 out of 16 flats were owner occupied. Now 6 or 7 are owner occupied.
Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.
yes. still a lot of older Brixton residents cleaned up money wise doing this, so good luck to them tbh.
someone mentioned Streatham earlier and how it hadn't gone the way of Brixton, i'd suggest it kept a lot more of it's housing stock intact as houses.
isvicthere?
15-11-2007, 18:59
every shop cant all be a free-trade juice-bar come unity-peace and pride black&white unite , drug users help centre ?
Your farrago of lazy prejudice omts "tree huggers". A wasted opportunity!
isvicthere?
15-11-2007, 19:21
you made what I thought was a contentious statement, and I challenged it and I've explained why. Since then you've been blustering about my agenda because it's quite obvious that you can't supply any real reason for singling out nailbars as an example of places you 'hate'. It's also obvious that you can't spell out my agenda because I haven't got one, I simply responded to your words on the screen in front of me.
Give it a rest with the "hate" thing FFS!
Unless you really believe the following two sentences mean the same thing:-
"I hate you."
"I hate you taking things out of context."
The first one is an example of what you are accusing the editor of. The second is an example of what he has actually said.:rolleyes:
Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.Back to how it was when, exactly? 1800?
Brixton's been famous for its bustling nightlife since Victorian times, with a host of huge entertainment venues like the Empress, Brixton Theatre, Academy and Palladium accommodating vast evening crowds.
Between 1910 and 1915 there was no less than nine cinemas in Brixton, with a far bigger selection of now-lost central pubs (Bradys, Black Horse, Queens, Angel) offering attracting night time drinkers.
Give it a rest with the "hate" thing FFS!
Unless you really believe the following two sentences mean the same thing:-
"I hate you."
"I hate you taking things out of context."
The first one is an example of what you are accusing the editor of. The second is an example of what he has actually said.:rolleyes:Amen to to that.
Stobart Stopper
15-11-2007, 20:20
Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?
We have loads of nail bars in this area, they are everywhere, 3 within a 5 minutes' walk of our house alone. I think they are more popular with the working classes rather than people on higher incomes eg £40k-plus.
Don't know about black people using them more, we don't have that many black people in this area so it's hard to tell.
Brixton was an entertainment 'hub' for Sharon Osbourne in the 50s too!
In the fifties and early sixties, Brixton, south of the Thames, was where all the vaudeville artists lived, comedians, singers, ventriloquists, acrobats. Entertainers. Pre-TV, vaudeville was the only entertainment there was for ordinary people, and with the Brixton Empress and the Camberwell Palace being less than a mile away, Brixton was the hub
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15388252/
Brixton was an entertainment 'hub' for Sharon Osbourne in the 50s too!
i have 3 generations of family born/lived in brixton area and left post war after my great nans pharmacy got bombed out.
my Nan reliably informed me before she died that Brixton was a fantastic and entertaining place to be pre and post WW2.
sadly she died before i was aware enough of the area/history to quiz her more but my Mum, who was born in a house in Brixton in 1947 spoke fondly of the families memories.
i'd loved to have shown my Nan your old picture archive as it visualises her oral history. if that makes sense :cool:
Off topic a tad, I heard that Hootenany was also briefly closed down a couple of days ago over the same 'tax issues' wot has done for the Living Bah.
Oh, and here's how the Bah! looked today:
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/images/living-bar-01.jpg
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/images/living-bar-02.jpg
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/images/living-bar-03.jpg
It's a striking piece of architecture, you know.
ShiftyBagLady
16-11-2007, 01:36
yeah, ive aways liked that building
bluestreak
16-11-2007, 01:50
It's a beautiful building. I've never been in it though. I'd love to see it turned into a nice local.
Also, this thread is everything I love and hate about urban!
It's a shame that we only got to see how attractive the Green Man was when they scraped away the paintwork to reveal a gorgeous pub frontage - just as it's being turned into anything but a pub.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/images/green-man07.jpg
I know it's not Brixton, but the pub at the end of the raod where I work has had all the paint scraped off to reveal lovely orange tiles. It's going to be a coffee shop, but that's better than a moulding closed pub. Hooray for tiles.
What is the Green Man being turned into? I can see there are entrances to flats above, but what about the pub?
Barney's cafe (opposite the Green Man) has had some work done to its frontage, to reveal a couple of old cigarette adverts... they look great.
Hooray for tiles.
Oh yes – there are some lovely pub tiles around. I was thinking about doing a photo collection, I see them all the time.
potential
16-11-2007, 10:02
the green man pub loughborough jtn is georgeous...
does anyone know what the pub bits going to be ?
anything positive would be much needed for the area...
snowy_again
16-11-2007, 10:27
a law / legal advice centre (at least that was the original idea) but i poked my nose through the windows yesterday and don't see how they'd fit all the staff in and cope with private / interview rooms in such as small space (unless they've dug out the cellar). That combined the new LSC contracting practices might make it hard to manage.
DJWrongspeed
16-11-2007, 11:56
If I had my way the coach'n'horses (let's forget it was ever called living, so 90s) would be transformed into a dark gothic pub, just what the area needs, somewhere for all the metal kids to goto b4 the big bands play at the academy. The name?.......perhaps the 'The Dying & The Dead' :D
If I had my way the coach'n'horses (let's forget it was ever called living, so 90s) would be transformed into a dark gothic pub, just what the area needs, somewhere for all the metal kids to goto b4 the big bands play at the academy. The name?.......perhaps the 'The Dying & The Dead' :D
The Intrepid Fox, Brixton!
:D
Mrs Magpie
17-11-2007, 08:42
Back to how it was when, exactly? 1800?
Here's Coldharbour Lane (then Cool Arbour Lane if the contemporary account regarding the Camberwell Beauty Butterfly that I have in a book about butterflies in the London area is correct) in 1750. The London Encyclopedia says that when it was still rural it was marshy and popular for duck shooting.
http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/display_page.asp?section=landmark_fullsize&id=89
so does this thread actually reveal the reason why the living bar got closed?
(i am too bored to read through the arguments).
last thing i heard what that they mainly had albaninan managers who were not so good at running tings (but i was told that by a former manager who was still pissed off with them). also loads of cocaine available.
Sorry had to skip some of these posts as its a long thread.
As one of the main people along with Anna Key who stopped Larry getting the old bike shop as a bar and had run ins with him about the Dog Star(not now in his ownership) perhaps I can say a few things.Brixton Cycles were well liked and it was the last straw that they got turfed out of CHL for someone like Larry.It was symbolic of what was potentially happening to Brixton.At the time it looked like well liked businesses would be pushed out by the like of Larry to turn central Brixton into one big "entertainment" area.At the time the Council was into all the ideas of "creative industries" "cultural capital" and the like.Larry payed lip service to this.Then once he got hold of a place just turned it into a late night noisy club.
Larry first came to Brixton on the back of Brixton Challenge.This was mainly government money to regenerate Brixton and BC put a lot of money into the Atlantic/Dogstar.At the time Larry was seen as an enterprising businessman who the Council liked.The whole way he dealt with local people was dismissive and arrogent.
As for the Living bar he damaged one of the better looking buildings in CHL.It soon looked crap and has done for ages.He also caused a lot of late night noise nuisance.
Im not against change in Brixton or a variety of places to go.I use the Lounge,Phoenix and Ritzy bar.However Larrys business activities and his attempt to build an "entertainment" empire in Brixton was not good for the area
[QUOTE=Choc]so does this thread actually reveal the reason why the living bar got closed?
He has other bars in London.If I remember correctly one of his business practises was to run a bar under 2 companies.Load a lot of debts under one company let that go under leaving his creditors with little or nothing and then swan off somewhere else.As far as I know the Living bar closed with a lot of debts.Knowing Larry I doubt whether thats the end of his "career" in the "entertainment" industry.I was not surprised to see it closed -its par for the course for him.He used to have the Dogstar but it closed for similar reasons.
also loads of cocaine available.
What a surprise:D
By the way Urban75 played an important role in helping to stop Larry get hold of the old bike shop.So all those posting here knocking U75 people as not "representive" etc could bear that it mind.I think it would have been a disaster for CHL and Brixton if he had got hold of the old bike shop.The campaign to stop him also made local Councillors and Lambeth Council realise that Brixton was not just bars.
I dont see Larry as "representive" other than he comes from a well off business family who can bail him out.
So those horrible "Racist Cokeheads" have been run out of town? :D
Good riddance to bad rubbish I say....I'm totally happy that god forsaken dive has closed down.
I hope Larry and his cronies f*ck off back to Clapham or wherever they came from.
Not sure if I count as one of Lawrence's "cronies" but I have been promoting Trunkafunk (last Sat of the month) there for three years, so I am sad to see the place close down.
There seems to be a lot of vitriol on this site towards Lawrence, late night bars and er... Clapham! Lawrence is not my favourite person for various reasons, but he's just a businessman.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread as there's way too many but I like to think the night we ran was friendly with a good mix of people. I can't speak for racism on the door, though I was never told of any issues. It is quite a white club, but that may be in part the type of music we play (electro house) which seems to attract that sort of crowd.
The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.
I find it weird how Londoners get so parochial about their corner, Clapham's 5 mins up the road! I lived in Brixton for a few years and now live in East Dulwich and it's the same everywhere - everyone's worried their corner of the city is being gentrified, swamped by outsiders etc. etc. I think it reflects on the English character.
'Nuff said from me. Living was a fabulous place for a boozy night out. The place was a bit dodgy and needed some money invested in it. I wouldn't trust the owner, but then I wouldn't trust anyone in that industry! I've promoted in a few clubs and they're all the same, Living's no different. Hopefully something decent replaces it - not a Starbucks!
The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.Well said.
I used to live in Battersea/Clapham and am also a Kiwi. I only come to Brixton to party and that's only 'cause many of my mates are there. I have done for years. I jump into a cab at the end of the night too.
If people think that makes me a bad person they can go fuck themselves. I still sleep at night. :)
Fuck me! I'm glad I've got that off my chest. I've been wanting to say that for years.:cool:
Not sure if I count as one of Lawrence's "cronies" but I have been promoting Trunkafunk (last Sat of the month) there for three years, so I am sad to see the place close down.There's a 'For Sale' sign outside the place now so it doesn't look like you'll be getting your club night back any time soon.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread as there's way too many but I like to think the night we ran was friendly with a good mix of people. I can't speak for racism on the door, though I was never told of any issues. It is quite a white club, but that may be in part the type of music we play (electro house) which seems to attract that sort of crowd.
The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.
And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.
We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton. :rolleyes:
And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.
We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton. :rolleyes:
Talk about angst! I lived in Brixton for a number of years and really like the place. I also think Clapham has it's good points. However, I know that my girlfriend feels threatened by the low level harassment one gets in Brixton, particularly around the corner outside KFC and the cash machines. She also gets comments that a) I don't experience as a male and b) One doesn't get in other parts of town. This was part of the reason we moved out of the area. I don't buy into the notion that many Londoners have of Brixton being a gun-ridden hell hole, but it is a place that has particular problems.
potential
28-11-2007, 23:59
And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.
We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton. :rolleyes:
local pubs for local people eh ! er last time i looked brixton was, and still is a high crime area ? what are you trying to say, go back to where you belong ?
i do hope you get abuse next time your, meeting your chums somewhere else other than brixton ??? piss off to where you belong.... different strokes for different folks, or dont you like different cultures....
If the perception of danger and crime is as high as some people are stating, it rather makes me wonder why people bother coming into Brixton at all.
Why is that, do you think?
Yossarian
29-11-2007, 03:04
The Academy?
Yossarian
29-11-2007, 03:24
I used to live in Battersea/Clapham and am also a Kiwi. I only come to Brixton to party and that's only 'cause many of my mates are there. I have done for years. I jump into a cab at the end of the night too.
Hang on - you sometimes go from one area of a big city to another for the nights out, and you get a *taxi* home as well? I think you must be the Antichrist...
If the perception of danger and crime is as high as some people are stating, it rather makes me wonder why people bother coming into Brixton at all.
Why is that, do you think?It's a middle finger in the face of the criminals. We're not going to let them get to us. ;) :p
The Academy?Err.. and what about the central Brixton/Coldharbour Lane venues such as the Living Bah (RIP), Dogstar and the Tongue and Cocaine (RIP), Mass and now Dex? That's what we're talking about after all.
It's a middle finger in the face of the criminals. We're not going to let them get to us. Not surprising if you're cuddled up in a cab!
:D :p
I live in Clapton - am I not allowed to come to Offline then? :(
I live in Clapton - am I not allowed to come to Offline then? I've absolutely no idea why you're asking me that. Perhaps you could explain your point? (not that I suspect you've got any real interest in coming to Offline anyway).
I've absolutely no idea why you're asking me that. Perhaps you could explain your point? (not that I suspect you've got any real interest in coming to Offline anyway).
The post was directed at anyone who has an issue with people from outside Brixton coming in, availing themsleves of your special facilities then fucking off again, pissed, in the middle of the cold dark night, in not the most salubrous area of town. Don't get me wrong - my bit isn't terribly salubriuous either.
Of course I am interested in Offline - the reason I don't go often is cuz it's in fucking Brixton.
tarannau
29-11-2007, 11:14
Brixton's not particularly salubrious, but it actually feels pretty safe late at night. There are plenty of people around at all hours in the centre and very little alcohol related violence. Aside from low level harrassment - mainly beggars and coltsfoot sellers (and some unpleasantly direct/desperate men) - I've experienced little danger in 30 odd years. Less well lit side streets mat be a different story
I suspect people feel more threatened by Brixton's reputation and street population than the actual record of violence to visitors. It would't surprise me, for example, to find out that you're far more likely to be attacked post pub-hours in the centre of Croydon or Kingston.
And you might not fancy weaving, sloshed, up Murder Mile on a cold dark night instead of getting a cab home. But I live there and I know it and it's OK :D
My point, made badly, was that posters are saying that Brixton is only for Brixtonians and that's crap.
mccliche
29-11-2007, 11:56
It would't surprise me, for example, to find out that you're far more likely to be attacked post pub-hours in the centre of Croydon or Kingston.
i was in croydon last friday night, the amount of police on the streets was far above that in brixton. def i would say brixton would be safer than croydon
ovaltina
29-11-2007, 12:00
brixton would be safer than croydon
I feel that way too, and avoid the suburbs wherever possible. If you stick to the main roads in Brixton and politely decline the various offers of drugs made to you, you're generally ok.
My point, made badly, was that posters are saying that Brixton is only for Brixtonians and that's crap.It should be noted that the Living Bah was quite exceptional in the way it pissed off local residents and businesses alike for a wide variety of reasons though.
tarannau
29-11-2007, 12:04
You're right, Murder Mile's far more desolate than Coldharbour Lane on a weekend/day night. Brixton's never struck me as that threatening in recent years - I'm not particularly perturbed by beggars and fake drugs sellers, ,nor am I disconcerted by the racial mix- and there's a remarkable tolerance for wibbling, pissed up people in the early hours. Compared to places like Stonebridge Park it feels downright safe.
Not sure if there's really a belief that 'Brixton is only for Brixtonians' - ignore Cowley of course, he's an arse - but more that pubs and services in the area should at least offer some nights and an atmosphere that feel inclusive to the the varied population of the area. Not every night perhaps, but it's good as if it doesn't feel as though a local bar is unwelcoming and more than a little discriminatory to the majority of people living nearby ime.
Yossarian
29-11-2007, 13:01
Err.. and what about the central Brixton/Coldharbour Lane venues such as the Living Bah (RIP), Dogstar and the Tongue and Cocaine (RIP), Mass and now Dex? That's what we're talking about after all.
Yeah, those places too.
Its only the REALLY pissed Cl'hamistas that get lairly in Brixton
They is all careful cause them don wan nah Bwad Bwoy pushing their Mac10 up their noses
It would never fucking happens but if it keeps em honest, jump in yer cab, dont be sick here, surely there has to be some benefit from the external perception of edginess?
PS I know I am posting here as an ex Brixtonian (actually I was ALWAYS an undercover Peckhamista HA HA!!!!!:D ) but it was a fucking nightmare all the peeps that din't live there pissing on the street, buying ansd selling drugs - yep, even the dealers reckon its too much!!! fuck that eh?
Just some standup urinals at the end of my street would be nice.
To be honest, the only time I ever saw drunken argy bargy regularly spilling out into the street in Brixton was... outside the Living Bah.
With its dodgy decking jutting right out into the street, and the dealers, hangers-on and hustlers all wedged into the remaining tiny strip of pavement, it was always an unpleasant place to walk past late at night.
Unless you're into random jostling and being "YO YO!'d" of course.
I have to say I saw some hilarious rip offs outside the Bah too. We watched one pair of muppets give £50 to a dealer who said he'd "be back in 5 mins with their stuff" and tried to stifle our laughs as he wandered off, ne'er to return.
Just some standup urinals at the end of my street would be nice.And on Elelectric Avenue. And Coldharbour Lane. And in Tate Gardens.
Etc etc etc
Mrs Magpie
29-11-2007, 22:13
i was in croydon last friday night, the amount of police on the streets was far above that in brixton. def i would say brixton would be safer than croydon
Yeah, my son and his girlfriend and friend were randomly beaten up as they waited for a bus in Croydon. His friend's skull was hairline fractured and my son had a suspected broken jaw (thankfully not as it turned out). They were kids waiting for a bus beaten up by men of about 30 :(
eta this was about 3 years ago
Talk about angst! I lived in Brixton for a number of years and really like the place. I also think Clapham has it's good points. However, I know that my girlfriend feels threatened by the low level harassment one gets in Brixton, particularly around the corner outside KFC and the cash machines. She also gets comments that a) I don't experience as a male and b) One doesn't get in other parts of town. This was part of the reason we moved out of the area. I don't buy into the notion that many Londoners have of Brixton being a gun-ridden hell hole, but it is a place that has particular problems.
Angst? Oh purrrrrrrrrlease.
Each to their own I suppose though.
local pubs for local people eh ! er last time i looked brixton was, and still is a high crime area ? what are you trying to say, go back to where you belong ?
i do hope you get abuse next time your, meeting your chums somewhere else other than brixton ??? piss off to where you belong.... different strokes for different folks, or dont you like different cultures....
Your actually Lawrence aren't you? :eek: :D
My issue isn't with people from outside coming in, people are free to go where they please, I do.
My issue is with how a particular establishment was run, an establishment that was previously in the centre of a place I've spent most of my years living in.
For me this establishment was run in such a way that it only catered for a certain type of "clientele" whilst in the process of excluding many what I would describe as "local" people.
I'm happy this establishment has closed down, it didn't do anything good for the local community, in fact it caused more damage than good.
Please try and read my posts before you jump into a tirade about cultures and the like because your way off the mark with what you've said.
Thanks for reading.
ignore Cowley of course, he's an arse
:eek:
Ignore Anus
HaHaHaHa!!!!!!!
yep, coating getting time I suspect.........
cockneyrebel
12-01-2008, 17:35
Can't work out why someone else doesn't just buy the bar and run it on the same format. It always seemed to be busy so must make money.
I think it was the only place in Brixton that played cheesy 80s music.
To be honest Brixton seems to be going a bit down hill at the moment, a few people have said that. No offence to people who live there but I find Brixton quite depressing. Loadsa drug dealers, smack heads, a big homeless problem and loads of people with mental health problems wandering around. Don't find it threatening just a bit of a downer.
The Goose must be one of the grimest pubs I know, bloody cheap though.
Brixton Hatter
14-01-2008, 01:36
wouldn't it be nice if someone reopened the living bah as a traditional boozer
wouldn't it be nice if someone reopened the living bah as a traditional boozerThose days are gone, I'm afraid.
Yeah, my son and his girlfriend and friend were randomly beaten up as they waited for a bus in Croydon. His friend's skull was hairline fractured and my son had a suspected broken jaw (thankfully not as it turned out). They were kids waiting for a bus beaten up by men of about 30 :(
eta this was about 3 years ago
I know Croydon a fair bit and Brixton well and for the normal person on a normal night out there's no comparison in terms of risk; Croydon wins hands down, it's full of fight-happy, pissed up boys looking for it and plenty of them (at least Saturdays and Fridays). Brixton's got it's edge but if you aren't up to anything silly or naughty you are really unlikely to get dragged in ime.
Guineveretoo
14-01-2008, 10:05
People on this thread are comparing "Croydon", which is one of the biggest London boroughs, and encompasses some of Crystal Palace, and all of Purley and Coulsdon, as well as lots of other wards in between, with "Brixton", which is a small area of the borough of Lambeth. It's a confusing comparison.
I wonder if people, when they say "Croydon", actually mean Central/East Croydon? Or do they mean West Croydon?
I ask because I live in the Borough of Croydon, and would like to be able to defend it, but I don't think people actually mean that the whole of Croydon is more dangerous than Brixton. :D
People on this thread are comparing "Croydon", which is one of the biggest London boroughs, and encompasses some of Crystal Palace, and all of Purley and Coulsdon, as well as lots of other wards in between, with "Brixton", which is a small area of the borough of Lambeth. It's a confusing comparison.
I wonder if people, when they say "Croydon", actually mean Central/East Croydon? Or do they mean West Croydon?
I ask because I live in the Borough of Croydon, and would like to be able to defend it, but I don't think people actually mean that the whole of Croydon is more dangerous than Brixton. :D
Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.
Croydon is lovely, leave it be you Brixton dwelling bullet dodgers you.
Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.
Yes, apologies to Croydon the Borough, I'm meaning George St, the High Street all around there. At weekends out in pub time. I think I'm quite good at being anonymous in aggy situations but I have been offered out there over nothing! Several times. In Kebab shops, at the tram stop, outside a pub. Real whatchoolookingat? stuff.
Yes, apologies to Croydon the Borough, I'm meaning George St, the High Street all around there. At weekends out in pub time. I think I'm quite good at being anonymous in aggy situations but I have been offered out there over nothing! Several times. In Kebab shops, at the tram stop, outside a pub. Real whatchoolookingat? stuff.
Never ever happend to me!
Whatwereyoulookingat?:p ;)
Never ever happend to me!
Whatwereyoulookingat?:p ;)
<goes suddenly tight-lipped>
you want some then? eh? do ya?
Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.
and its also a lot larger than the centre of Brixton.
and its also a lot larger than the centre of Brixton.
Yes?
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