Who's going to win the F1 Championship? [Archive]

aylee

16-10-2007, 16:11

The position in the drivers' championship is:

1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes GB 107
2 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes Spa 103
3 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari Fin 100

The tiebreaking rules are:

If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to :
a) the holder of the greatest number of first places,
b) if the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places,
c) if the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) if this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/5245/fia.html

Raikkonen has 5 wins to 4 each for Hamilton and Alonso.

So, the permutations are as follows:

If Hamilton wins or finishes second, he is champion.

If Hamilton finishes 3rd or 4th, Alonso must win in Brazil to take the title.

If Hamilton finishes 5th, 6th or 7th, Alonso will be champion if he wins or comes 2nd.

If Hamilton finishes 6th and Alonso no higher than 3rd, Raikkonen snatches the title if he wins in Brazil.

If Hamilton finishes 7th and Alonso finishes 3rd, again victory for Raikkonen will net him the title. If he fails to win, Hamilton and Alonso have equal points and victories, but Hamilton will take the title as he has 5 second places to Alonso's 4.

If Hamilton finishes 8th and Alonso finishes 4th, Raikkonen takes the title by winning or coming second (in the latter case as he has more race wins). Otherwise, again Hamilton takes the title by having more second places.

If Hamilton fails to score, Raikkonen must either win with Alonso no higher than 3rd or come second with Alonso no higher than 6th to take the title. Alonso must finish at least fourth to take the title.

In all other scenarios, Hamilton is champion.

This weekend's race should be a nail-biter (I hope there is no anti-climax such as an early retirement from two of the contenders) but I think that the boy will do it. :)

red rose

17-10-2007, 12:31

I think Hamilton will win unless he chokes.

But I'm a disgusting unpatriotic Ferrari fan so I want Raikkonen to win :p

skyscraper101

17-10-2007, 12:41

I want Hamilton to win. It will do so much for the sport.

TAE

17-10-2007, 12:53

I wanted to choose "Hamilton. Go Britain!" and "F1 is evil".

The Groke

17-10-2007, 12:53

Bahnhof Strasse

17-10-2007, 16:08

Massa's gonna smash in to Hamilton & Alonso.

cliche guevara

18-10-2007, 10:04

Massa's gonna smash in to Hamilton & Alonso.

I wouldn't be suprised if he tried taking one of them out, just renewed his contract with ferrari so it's gotta be worth his while.

I really hope than none of the big three have to retire early, would completely ruin it.

Pingu

18-10-2007, 10:14

Massa's gonna smash in to Hamilton & Alonso.

or alonso takes out hamilton and lobs Raikkonen a bottle of nox before mooning the mclarren pit wall with the words "I hate you all" written on his arse in permanant marker.

TAE

18-10-2007, 11:07

... and then joining Ferrari ?

Pingu

18-10-2007, 11:16

... and then joining Ferrari ?

and nicking the workshop manual en route

g force

18-10-2007, 11:20

No chance. His only possibilities are back to Renault and Uncle Flav who loves him so (and he wonders why Trulli and Fisi got pissed off with Renault now he's recieving the same treatment as them!), or Toyota. And frankly, even his claim of bringing McLaren half a second would keep Toyota barely inside the Top 6.

He'll stick at McLaren I reckon.

twistedAM

18-10-2007, 11:35

i voted Alonso even though i dislike the twat; I've a real funny feeling that Hamilton won't finish.

marshall

18-10-2007, 11:42

Got a sneaky that Alonso’s gonna nick it.

But maybe that’s just wishful thinking as I reckon he’s the more exciting driver.

Badgers

18-10-2007, 13:46

... and then joining Ferrari ?

Expensive test driver

Pingu

18-10-2007, 14:10

i reckon our scenario would make for more interesting viewing

jugularvein

18-10-2007, 14:46

what time's it on?

Badgers

18-10-2007, 14:51

what time's it on?

GMT?

jugularvein

18-10-2007, 14:54

yeah

Bahnhof Strasse

18-10-2007, 14:56

It's in Brazil so will be early evening. 5 or 6ish.

Silva

19-10-2007, 00:35

Hamilton will win it, although I'd loved if Raikonen nicked it. The McLaren pit war was absolutely disgusting.

Dead Cat Bounce

19-10-2007, 20:14

Another twist in the climax to the season :

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41095

Hamilton faster in second practice though.

TAE

19-10-2007, 20:17

How can this happen? The team must know these rules, surely.

Dead Cat Bounce

19-10-2007, 21:46

Only a $15,000 fine then :

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41104

Descartes

20-10-2007, 08:03

Wrong tyres in practice and quali have only ever been fines... but the present anti McLaren, ( did I really say that? ) feeling could have had serious repercussions.

I like Lauda's comments, Sue Alonso for contractual negligence... or words to that effect.... Just as he is climbing into the car on the grid.

Let's just hope, no bumper cars out there tomorrow.

Dead Cat Bounce

20-10-2007, 19:55

Second place will do.

As long as he keeps it on the circuit and the pit crew don't screw up we're looking at the next British F1 champion.

:)

The Boy

20-10-2007, 20:53

That "lose, lose, lose" bet that someone mentioned on this (or maybe it was the rugby) thread is beginning to look good.

For what it's worth, I would love to see Alonso win but it isn't going to happen is it? I mean it would take a major fuck up for Hamilton not to take the title, no?

Actually, what I *really* want to see is Raikonnen win. That would make me laugh. A lot.

TAE

21-10-2007, 09:38

Second place will do.
Yes, 2nd place in today's race would be great, especially if Felipe Massa wins at home. :)

Gingerman

21-10-2007, 09:42

Actually, what I *really* want to see is Raikonnen win. That would make me laugh. A lot.
Be fuckin ironic if he did would't it

Flashman

21-10-2007, 09:46

Local hero on pole is just what was needed.

Go on Lewis.

ScallyWag II

21-10-2007, 10:38

Hope it's Lewis that wins. I don't like Alonso. Really looking forward to the race later!

Donna Ferentes

21-10-2007, 11:22

As I went to the same school as Hamilton (albeit twenty years apart) I suppose I should watch this...

cliche guevara

21-10-2007, 11:46

I'm glad that Massa has pole, makes it much less likely that there will be any incidents involving him and a Mclaren car.

xenon

21-10-2007, 16:18

Fuck.
:(

Donna Ferentes

21-10-2007, 16:20

Did all that happen while there was a long advert break? It did where I am.

wreckhead

21-10-2007, 16:29

Did all that happen while there was a long advert break? It did where I am.
yes, very irritating :(... however there's a long ad break on now so maybe by the time it ends Hamilton will have regained all those places

hmm

revol68

21-10-2007, 16:30

it's a fucking joke that ITV got the F1 coverage and then chop it up with adverts, it's suppoused to be an exciting live event. Wankers.

Donna Ferentes

21-10-2007, 16:30

Presumably Massa will give way to his team-mate if required?

wreckhead

21-10-2007, 16:36

it's a fucking joke that ITV got the F1 coverage and then chop it up with adverts, it's suppoused to be an exciting live event. Wankers.

One of the reasons I stopped watching whole races when it went to ITV, just too frustrating. I decided to sit down for this one for obvious reasons.

Anyway to stay on topic it looks like Alonso now, which is also :mad:

DJ Squelch

21-10-2007, 16:40

RE: Masa giving way - That would make sense but is that allowed still, I thought they had banned team orders? Plus it's Masa's home crowd.

I think Lewis is fucked now but I'm still chewing the corners of the table I'm so nervous. If he does it, it will be sensational.

Augie March

21-10-2007, 17:15

Game over now. :(

Raikkonen for the win?

DJ Squelch

21-10-2007, 17:33

Aw, fuck, at least it wasn't Alonso.

McClaren get nothing for the season.

skyscraper101

21-10-2007, 17:37

Britain, what a nation of sporting under-achievers

Augie March

21-10-2007, 17:40

Britain, what a nation of sporting under-achievers

Runners-up in two world championships that in both we weren't expected to get anywhere? If anything I'd say that's an over-achievement.

kained&able

21-10-2007, 17:42

yay and the vilification of hamilton starts!

best debut season ever = under acheiveing. whatever.

To be honest im glad hamilton didn't win, if he had a bad start to the nxt season or a drop in from at any point im sure the press would be spouting the same shite sky scraper is and it would ruin him. Happens far to often with our young sports stars.

dave

DJ Squelch

21-10-2007, 17:48

Conspiracy theorists, why did Lewis's car turn off mid-race. Championship was his if that hadn't happened even with his poor start, + plus why didn't they fuel him to the end at his 2nd stop?

Berni saying he wanted Alonso to win, fucking traitor.

SpookyFrank

21-10-2007, 17:48

Jambooboo

21-10-2007, 17:49

Fucking hell, three big sporting events this week and the English fuck them all up.

:(

Augie March

21-10-2007, 17:50

Can there be any doubt that Lewis will own next season though? :)

Aye and many, many seasons to follow I reckon. :cool:

marty21

21-10-2007, 17:50

Britain, what a nation of sporting under-achievers

i had a treble bet on, guess which 3 recent English results they were:(

kained&able

21-10-2007, 17:51

Raikkonen deserves the win I reckon, he's been consistently great for years now. Alonso is a petulent little shite and didn't deserve to win his bus fare home.

Can there be any doubt that Lewis will own next season though? :)

on talent he should be there or there abouts but its f1 so we have to wait to see the vars before working shit like that out.

So alonso to ferrai next year i reckon.

dave

revol68

21-10-2007, 17:59

love it, Hamilton is English whilst Colin McRae was British.

english wankers.

brianx

21-10-2007, 19:07

I think Raikkonen is going to win it.

Descartes

21-10-2007, 19:14

Oh Dear, Kimi is champion, ..

Will Hamilton be another of the brit that promise so much and deliver so little?.

Was it a case of pressure in the end?

McLaren let kimi go, and he wins the championship, the New Boy and Old Champion, hopefully, will work together and achieve something between them.

Massa has just signed a new contract and his driving in Brazil was as a true team mate.

Another season, another champion?

TAE

21-10-2007, 19:17

deliver so little?
What are you talking about? Hamilton is rookie of the decade !

Paulie Tandoori

21-10-2007, 19:18

He was very good all season but i think is inexperience showed a bit today. Ah well.

ScallyWag II

21-10-2007, 19:24

Bad luck Lewis. Good drive by Raikkonen. 2nd place overall in your first year's not bad going!

g force

21-10-2007, 19:39

I know bit of perspective here....the reigning GP2 champion has just stepped into F1 and seems like he's been there for years, poles, winning under pressure he's had a stunning season. Unlucky he had a gearbox problem when it really mattered but he'll be around for a long time.

Alonso will either stay put or go to Renault. Ferrari have Massa signed to 2010 and the WDC. No seat there unless he wants to be a tester:D

roddes

21-10-2007, 20:32

alonso didnt win and thats the main thing!!!!FUCK YOU ALONSO!!!!!

to be fair though kimii did desever to win but there was way to much pressure on lewis ,he could of well won but i think it was one of the first times i think spyker didnt couse a crash

aylee

21-10-2007, 20:42

What a race that was .... even at the end, Heidfeld and Rosberg (I think) were so close to taking each other out and had they done so, Hamilton would have won the title.

Raikkonen probably deserves the title for his six victories over the season as a whole as against four for Alonso and Hamilton, but Lewis has had a stunning season and can only get better.

Miss Potter

21-10-2007, 21:29

breaking news (can't get a link yet but it's on the ticker tape thing on BBC news): two teams including BMW are being investigated for fuel irregularities. If found to be true, BMW will be disqualified from today's race which would put Lewis up a few places and therefore he'd win the title

TAE

21-10-2007, 21:37

Seems very unlikely to me, but in this crazy sport anything is possible.

bmw-investigation (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21102007/23/bmw-investigation-gift-hamilton-title.html)

Augie March

21-10-2007, 21:37

Paulie Tandoori

21-10-2007, 21:41

TAE

21-10-2007, 21:54

From www.formula1.com:

The BMW Sauber and Williams teams are being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over possible technical irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday’s Interlagos race.

[...]

If they were to be disqualified, it would move McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton up from seventh to fourth, making him world champion, rather than Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.

[...]

BMW Sauber and Williams under investigation (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/10/7023.html)

gunneradt

21-10-2007, 22:05

interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm

TAE

21-10-2007, 22:07

He just needs two extra points, doesn't he?

aylee

21-10-2007, 22:14

Can you imagine how Raikkonen would feel if he lost the title as a result of this inquiry? :eek:

Paulie Tandoori

21-10-2007, 22:24

annoyed? *worried* :sad:

red rose

21-10-2007, 22:28

Does anyone know if the mechanics that the Williams driver hit are alright?

I can't find any reports about it.

TAE

21-10-2007, 22:30

Can you imagine how Raikkonen would feel if he lost the title as a result of this inquiry? :eek:
How would Hamilton feel if his first F1 championship was due to a technicality ? I could imagine he'd rather win it next year than to get it like this. Unless the fuel mix really did prevent Hamilton from catching up with the BMW Sauber and Williams drivers, in which case it would of course be fair enough if Hamilton were given the title.

TAE

21-10-2007, 22:33

Does anyone know if the mechanics that the Williams driver hit are alright?

I can't find any reports about it.
Last I heard they were fine.

kained&able

21-10-2007, 22:58

God i really hope the title doesn't get decided in a meeting that would be about the last straw i could deal with from f1.

Sport should be decided on the field of play NOT A FUCKING COURT ROOM SHEFFIELD UNITED:mad: :mad: :mad: :D umm sorry got side tracked.

dave

xenon

21-10-2007, 23:08

love it, Hamilton is English whilst Colin McRae was British.

english wankers.

Who bar 1 poster has said that?

Anyway, investigation about some fuel situation with BMW I think. Just caught end of report on radio. So slim chance he might still win.

xenon

21-10-2007, 23:08

Oh yeah ^

I know. Should read rest of thread before replying.

Descartes

21-10-2007, 23:48

Ironic to say the least, Ferrari make lots of noise about regulations and cheats and the WDC could be lost because of a fuel regulation infringement.

Flashman

22-10-2007, 00:41

Raikkonen confirmed as champ. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm)

That's that.

upsidedownwalrus

22-10-2007, 00:52

Runners-up in two world championships that in both we weren't expected to get anywhere? If anything I'd say that's an over-achievement.

Word. Furthermore, it's not as if Hamilton is a sort of Henman who has been around for years and never getting anywhere, he's a rookie driver who as Dave said below your psot, has had one of the best debut seasons ever.

I hate F1 but he may persuade me to watch it a bit more closely next season.

Descartes

22-10-2007, 07:37

The problem is, some many Brits have promised lots, in all sports and then fallen at the last hurdle,

How long did it take Mansell to win a chempionship, Brundle, Blundell, Button, John Watson, but those who go abroad seems to have better fortunes, Green, Paffitt, Franchitti, etc .. and I know you are going to quote Clark and Stewart...what ever sport, we seem to fall at the final..Let's hope this will be different.

The leading cars into the first bend, Massa's braking and Alonso pass were due to Hamilton's rush for glory. A little less pace and, possibly, a better finish.

Three examples this week alone. Football, Rugby and F1

g force

22-10-2007, 08:23

Interesting though because of the DQ from the constructors McLaren will run # 22 and 23 next season.

aylee

22-10-2007, 08:54

Raikkonen confirmed as champ. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm)

That's that.

Not quite, as McLaren are contesting the decision not to punish the other teams. In my view it should now be left alone and everyone should get ready for next season.

Gingerman

22-10-2007, 09:01

Mclaren have some fuckin nerve,damn lucky that Hamilton and Alonso were able to contest the championship right up to yesterdays race after the spying affair:mad:

Pingu

22-10-2007, 09:10

i guess mcclaren would argue that if they are to be penalised by a rule infringement(s) then everyone else should be too...

bit of shit way to determine the championship though

El Sueno

22-10-2007, 09:38

cliche guevara

22-10-2007, 09:43

I am frankly shocked that anyone on here is daring to criticise Lewis. His only mistake yesterday was trying to re-capture the place he lost to Alonso at the star, he should've hung back and chilled. Other than that, the problems were not his. And after the engine trouble, he gained eleven places, in my book that's a fantastic drive, many other drivers would've given up when they couldn't get the car out of neutral.
He's had an absolute blinder of a season, and hopefully will be amongst the top drivers for many years to come.

On a side note, if I was Rosberg yesterday, I'd have taken Kubica out. I reckon that could've got him a seat at Mclaren...

El Sueno

22-10-2007, 10:08

g force

22-10-2007, 10:13

Makes next season more interesting to see who moves where. Vettel and Sutil will probably move...Toyota and Williams both need drivers and if Alonso moves Renault/McLaren.

I thought Lewis was brilliant (and i'm not a massive fan TBH) - the move on the Honda was sublime considering he was a rookie leading the championship coming into the last GP and had never raced on what is generally regarded as one of the most challenging circuits on the calender.

Now if only my team - Willaims - could give Rosberg the machinery he deserves :D

London_Calling

22-10-2007, 10:27

What a week for English sports though - football, rugby, F1 and snooker. I mean, come on!
I also heard this comment on the tv commentary but didn't think it worthy of repeating - just the usual vacuous, empty headed journo drivel.

Do you really take you lead from bullshit tv commentators?

kained&able

22-10-2007, 10:28

I loved the way ITV cited an 'incident in the first lap' which put Hamilton down the grid... nothing to do with the fact that he fucked it up all by himself.

What a week for English sports though - football, rugby, F1 and snooker. I mean, come on!

what losing all his gears/gearing programmes for 40 secs is lewis fault how?

As for how long did it take mansell thew answer is about 12 years, but six of them were in a very dire lotus. He acheived two 2nd places a in the drivers championship during his first stint at willaims in about 86, then had 2 years in possibly the shitests ferrai car of all time. Then won a championship and had another 2nd place back at williams.

Then went to indy car and pissed all over it. Thats not bad going.

As for button henman and all and for that matter the english football team they suffer from the normal english sporting delusions. The second anyone has any success then they should be winning world championships, the second they don't win it they are shit. Its like we don't understand the concept of merely being good. It pisses me right off.

dave

London_Calling

22-10-2007, 10:33

Doesn't it come down to why the third stop ?

It makes no sense at all, does it?

kained&able

22-10-2007, 10:41

doubt hamilton will be responsible for that. My thereoy about the third stop was he was using a very hifgh fuel setting in an effort to catch up to kubica and rosenberg or whomever was fighting for 5th place.

Just couldn't find the pace.

dave

El Sueno

22-10-2007, 10:41

I also heard this comment on the tv commentary but didn't think it worthy of repeating - just the usual vacuous, empty headed journo drivel.

Do you really take you lead from bullshit tv commentators?

Haha, no I don't remember hearing that actually. I thought it to myself yesterday as I sat down to watch the snooker. But 'bullshit'? Whatever...

El Sueno

22-10-2007, 10:42

what losing all his gears/gearing programmes for 40 secs is lewis fault how?

dave

No, I was referring to the 'incident' in the first lap.

g force

22-10-2007, 10:49

TAE

22-10-2007, 10:50

The championship was lost in China and Germany, not in Brazil.

However I agree with cliche guevara, Hamilton has been fantastic (much better than any of us, for sure) and should be encouraged, not criticised.

kained&able

22-10-2007, 10:52

Who were using illegal fuel that according to Mike Gascoigne could give up to 10bhp more.

Ah yes forgot about that bit was half asleep when i read bout that last night. Is that confirmed or jsut a silly rumour?

I thought all the fuel was provided by the same company from the same tanks?????:confused:

dave

TAE

22-10-2007, 11:32

I hate it when they completely change the contents of links! :mad:

Anyway, this story which I linked to earlier showed that it is not a silly rumor, even though it has been updated now:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/10/7023.html

kained&able

22-10-2007, 11:36

ahh i see its not the feul that was the problem it was a cooling system of some kind, that makes abit more sense.

dave

oake

22-10-2007, 19:35

Who were using illegal fuel that according to Mike Gascoigne could give up to 10bhp more.

I understand that the benefits of the colder fuel (allegedly 3ºC lower than regulation), are:

1. It is slightly denser, which would enable it to be pumped into a car slightly more quickly, thus (very) marginally reducing pit-stop time.

2. A greater mass of fuel could be burnt in the engine, thus increasing the power output slightly, but this would last only until the fuel reached ambient temperature, probably within a lap or so.

All in all, the advantage gained would be very small, and it's unlikely that a team would risk disqualification by deliberately altering the fuel temperature - more likely to be a cock-up or malfunction.

Ich bin ein Mod

23-10-2007, 17:15

Isn't the ruling that it has to be within a certain percentage of the air temp? If so, couldn't it simply be down to the incredibly high temperatures at the GP?

kained&able

23-10-2007, 17:24

i would have thought so. every team uses the same fuel from the same tanks. So either williams had something that cooled the temp in the tank or its just a bit random.

dave

Descartes

23-10-2007, 19:17

The reason for the checks, espacially at Sao Paulo, altitude and temperature and subsequently air /fuel mix. Colder fuel, cools air and denser charge of air/fuel.

Benefits, 10 to 15 BHP.....

What was nice, the Mclaren guys got together with the team manager and did a surprise presentation of a copy of the World Constructors Championship Vase to Ron Dennis, .... engraved, from the team.

Somebody commented, As long as the FIA dont chase us for copying their vase.

Ron Dennis said he would take it home.

mtbskalover

24-10-2007, 12:30

a friend of my old mans who is a big kart racer reckons its all conspiracy related to the ferrai law suite.

by loosing the last two races and allowing ferrai the championship the penatly/fine towards Mclaren will be smaller.

:D

Descartes

24-10-2007, 20:29

Not so much a conspiracy more a carefully choreographed finale to a good season, all the ingredients to enthral and maintain the frenzied crowd's attention.

Martin Brundle during one of his grid walks, stopped and asked David Coulthard who he thought would win the championship that year.

The immediate succinct reply was, " You better ask Bernie"

If you consider the sequence of events and the people involved, the hierarchy of the FIA and the money involved..... no way are they going to allow this to get away from them.

The last Grand Prix of the season to decide the title....... the script writers... Tee hee.

Consider, Jordan racing have a young German protege, they are asked to go to Japan to arrange a possible contract with Toyota... while they are away, the young German signs for Benetton ... and MTV the German television company suddenly become interested, to the point of even buying shares in Formula One holding company.
Jordan returned without the engine deal and the young German driver.

The rest is history.

GarfieldLeChat

24-10-2007, 20:34

Mclaren have some fuckin nerve,damn lucky that Hamilton and Alonso were able to contest the championship right up to yesterdays race after the spying affair:mad:
well yes and no in a fair non biased world then ferarri would also have been equally disqualified s the information went both ways however they didn't discuss pulling out of F1 to start rival series and Mcleren don't have a 80% majority on the FIA council...

so you figger that one out...

Descartes

24-10-2007, 22:52

Gingerman, try reading the transcript for the two hearings... bias is a soft word to describe the hearing.

Ignore what the papers say.

GarfieldLeChat

24-10-2007, 23:47

Gingerman, try reading the transcript for the two hearings... bias is a soft word to describe the hearing.
you mean the team being unaware of the technical notes and not having used any information from them and the team principal not being aware of it and indeed actually telling the FIA the moment that it was discovered (via Alonso threatening the team with exposure of his consprisy to cheat if he wasn't promoted to number 1 in the team) them instantly dismissing the technical people responsible and handing over every single document about the entire seasons car without request to prove their innocence in the matter, whilst accepting responsiblity for the actions of their two staff members who deleiberately went out to cheat. and dispite ferarri not being nearly as candid and refusing to conceed whether they had used any information hey had recieved not providing document and evidence you mean type of bias...

McCleren were robbed Alonso should be banned for life and Ferarri should be equally fined.

That'll never happen though.

I'd agree about this year being very much chorographed and Bernie even said as much on the grid walk saying who'd win the race and who'd not be winning the championship. As he'd said earlier in the year that he'd be supporting and indeed expecting Alonso to win before the spygate issues came out.

One can expect he was none to plesed at having to alter his plans to suit the spainard. On the other theatrical side of things Max is Oswalds son, one wonders how he might have taken a Black world champion who out shone the rest of the white field in many ways theres an element of Jessie Owens here...

butchersapron

24-10-2007, 23:58

Are you suggesting that Max Mosely is a racist or a facist? Or both?

GarfieldLeChat

25-10-2007, 00:03

Are you suggesting that Max Mosely is a racist or a facist? Or both?
no you are... :p

i'm merely sugesting that there's certainly an element of the whole I'm not shaking hands with him type affair... it would be ludicrous to suggest any thing further knowing how litigious F1 can be...

do you think the apple falls far from the tree butch?

butchersapron

25-10-2007, 00:07

No, you're suggesting that he is racist. Quite clearly. You do it again in the next post. Whilst he may be a knob it's bit shit to call him a racist or a fascist with absolutely no evidence. Very shitty and morally bankrupt.

Are you a rich cunt with rich cunt bigotries because of your background?

GarfieldLeChat

25-10-2007, 00:47

you into motorsport butch?

you ever been to the black tie events held for motor sport, heard what's said behind closed doors?

ever wondered why there's a predomently white male culture with in motorsport?

for someone in the antifa scene you seem woefully oblivous to the culture with in it...

butchersapron

25-10-2007, 16:12

So, i ask again, are you suggesting that Max Mosely is a racist or a facist? Or both?

And do you share the bigotries of your upbringing?

GarfieldLeChat

25-10-2007, 16:46

So, i ask again, are you suggesting that Max Mosely is a racist or a facist? Or both?

I refer the learned gentleman to my previous answer...

And do you share the bigotries of your upbringing?
I think it would be foolish to say that the sins of the father aren't in some way visitied upon the son... some you can over come some you can repress but you are both the physical and indeed theological ake up of your parents and they have more input into forming you than just about anyone else (or more true i guess to say that who ever raises you has this input) But also i see fundemantal flaws and downsides to my upbringing however i would never charchterise myself as being either typical or atypical in order to base the comparision.

so i'll ask the questions you have avoided, again.

you into motorsport butch?

you ever been to the black tie events held for motor sport, heard what's said behind closed doors?

ever wondered why there's a predomently white male culture with in motorsport?

well?

Descartes

25-10-2007, 18:33

Woo Hoo.... GLC, I would refer anyone to the history of the Mosley family and the political prediliction, It would be very nice to assume that the son and father thing has not had some sort of influence but..

The black tie and tails creates its own community, the racing world at all levels is a very small community, people knowing people and aware of the hierarchical structure...

The influence of the ex ferrari team manager on the FIA commitee is succinctly phrased by the McLaren counsel in his opening statement, Could we have ther espect of slience from the gentleman on the right, three guess 's as to who that remark was addressed to....

The legal argument that Mr Picininni (spl) should not have been present as a voting member was accepted but at no time was he restricted to the position of observer.

The histroy and influence of Bernie is chronicled time and again and the common knowledge of how he paid team owners, how team owners worked from telephone boxes with a handful of change before receiving their prize money to allow them to pay their staff.....

Bernie's and his wifes involvement, SEC ownership of circuits and the ... well it just rambles on and on.....

I am inclined to think that Buctch is looking in from the outside and unaware of the realities.