Outside seating areas – whose space is it?

[Skim]

I was on Oxford Street today and noticed that Pret a Manger had put signs on their outside tables saying something like: "we want to keep this area pristine, please do not smoke here."

Leaving aside the futility of trying to maintain a non-smoking space on one of what must be one of London's most polluted streets, does Pret (and other cafes who put tables on the street) have the right to tell you what you can do on the pavement? What would happen if someone wanted to smoke there anyway? You'd be sitting on Pret's chairs but the chairs are in a public space.

I also saw another shop just off Oxford St, a hairdresser, which requested people not to smoke outside. Although they are entitled to make a request, surely the pavement still counts at public space? Just wondering, really...

[dessiato]

That sounds wrong, I know you can't smoke in public, enclosed places, but how can they stop you smoking on the street? I thought part of the idea of seating outside was to allow smoking while eating/drinking.

[Crispy]

Check the pavement - if it's got those little brass studs in a row, then the premises extend to the studs and they're entitled to put their chairs out on their premises (although they probably still need permission of some sort)

[chymaera]

Although they are entitled to make a request, surely the pavement still counts at public space? Just wondering, really...

That depends, often the 3 feet of pavement nearest the road is the public bit. The rest often belongs to the shops/houses behind it.
(legal minefield by the way)

[5t3IIa]

Check the pavement - if it's got those little brass studs in a row, then the premises extend to the studs and they're entitled to put their chairs out on their premises (although they probably still need permission of some sort)


*gasp*
\
:eek:

Is that what those studs mean?! A veil has been lifted! Ta!

[Belushi]

Just light up - if they complain tell them to call the police.

[Orang Utan]

There are not always studs there - sometimes the paving is just different in the area that's 'owned' by the premises - I have noticed this outside pubs but it's the same as other premises - my work has a border of black tiles around it - you can smoke outside them but not inside them

[pogofish]

Also remember that your new licencing laws allow councils to designate areas where outside space can be treated & licenced in much the same way as inside. They also have the discretion to extend the authority & participation of individual premises to manage these spaces - specifically intended for things like tables outside pubs, bouncers managing streets etc.

As said earlier, it can become a minefield.

[detective-boy]

Is that what those studs mean?! A veil has been lifted! Ta!
As Orang Utan has said, it's not always studs - often it is clear from a change in surfacing but sometimes there is no visible marking.

On private property they can do what they like, no-smoking wise (they may need permission to do tables and stuff even if it is their property if it forms part of the footway in some local authority areas, usually part of licensing conditions). If it is a public place and they have been permitted to place their tables their by the local authority they have no power to regulate what you do. And just because smoking is banned in substantially enclosed places the converse is not true - it is not automatically permitted in open places.

[Skim]

Interesting.

I had never even noticed studs before, but I'm sure I'll see them everywhere now...

[zoltan]

Interesting.

I had never even noticed studs before, but I'm sure I'll see them everywhere now...

Until recently I assumed they were to fuck up skateboarders:D

[Monkeynuts]

The little studs or brass lines are sometimes to indicate 'smoke breakout panels' - basically hatches to the basement that the fire brigade can come along and smash through with a sledge hammer to let air in in the event of a blaze.

[Crispy]

The little studs or brass lines are sometimes to indicate 'smoke breakout panels' - basically hatches to the basement that the fire brigade can come along and smash through with a sledge hammer to let air in in the event of a blaze.
also true - there should be a sign indicating this if it's the case.

[Alex B]

This is an outrage! Businesses politely requesting that people not smoke? Down with this sort of thing, etc.

[milesy]

Until recently I assumed they were to fuck up skateboarders:D

i've never known what they were for, and it's one of them things that i've often thought about starting a thread about.... and now i know. i thought it might have been something exciting. i feel a bit deflated now.

[5t3IIa]

i've never known what they were for, and it's one of them things that i've often thought about starting a thread about.... and now i know. i thought it might have been something exciting. i feel a bit deflated now.


You think be delfated is bad? I was outside a caff yesterday and found myself thinking 'Ooo, these tables are way over the studs - I wonder if that's allowed?' :rolleyes: