View Full Version : Notting Hill Carnival 2007
FabricLiveBaby!
16-08-2007, 17:59
Whos going then? And where are you all going to be stationed?
I'm going with a bunch of mates (though I've never been before I am quite excited) and we are going to be stationed (as far as I know) near a bus that has been converted into a DJ booth.. or something. And it plays house music ... or something.
Where can I get more infor on it, and what should I look out for dangers, good stuff, what to do, what not to do, where to get drinks, etc etc etc.
Ohh I'm all exciteried.
Some mates of mine are doing the sound system for Pineapple Tribe.
Not sure where it will be yet but it's going to be filth. 12 x Lab Horns kicking out the bass :cool:
I'll most likely end up at all saints road for the usual cmc/matrix system
Whos going then? And where are you all going to be stationed?
I'm going with a bunch of mates (though I've never been before I am quite excited) and we are going to be stationed (as far as I know) near a bus that has been converted into a DJ booth.. or something. And it plays house music ... or something.
Where can I get more infor on it, and what should I look out for dangers, good stuff, what to do, what not to do, where to get drinks, etc etc etc.
Ohh I'm all exciteried.
Buy next week's time out. It should have a map of all the soundsystems n lots of info on the weekend.
Some mates of mine are doing the sound system for Pineapple Tribe.
Not sure where it will be yet but it's going to be filth. 12 x Lab Horns kicking out the bass :cool:
What will they be playing mate?
I was an absolute pissed up disgrace last year- trying to fight coppers, the lot. :o :(
Dubversion
17-08-2007, 09:46
we are going to be stationed (as far as I know) near a bus that has been converted into a DJ booth.. or something. And it plays house music ... or something.
sounds like Norman Jay. Yeh, good luck getting THERE :D
tarannau
17-08-2007, 10:00
Best tip for Carnival: avoid Good Times and Sancho Panza. Victims of their own hype in many ways - different, duller crowd to much of the carnival, packed into way too small a space. It's better to see the same djs elsewhere. And besides, 20 years ago Jay seemed fairly unique with his soundsystem, now Sir Norm plays what seems a safety first selection. Consistently average.
Corner of All Saint and Tavistock for the CMC rig for me. The occasional wonder to Aba Shanti and maybe Gaz's and that's my lot.
Captain Kirk
17-08-2007, 10:32
sancho panza is always rammed. :(
rutabowa
17-08-2007, 10:43
The occasional wonder to Aba Shanti and maybe Gaz's and that's my lot.
the wander from aba shanti to gaz's rockin blues is at least an hour though, in case someone hasn't been before!
tarannau
17-08-2007, 10:45
sancho panza is always rammed. :(
It's also pretty shit there. Go any enjoy some proper carnival sounds and leave SP for their boat or warehouse parties.
tarannau
17-08-2007, 10:46
the wander from aba shanti to gaz's rockin blues is at least an hour though, in case someone hasn't been before!
Fair point. But over the course of 2 days I reckon even my lazy self can manage it.
Dubversion
17-08-2007, 10:48
if i go at all, it'll be to fetch up at Aba Shanti then go home :D
sojourner
17-08-2007, 10:51
if i go at all, it'll be to fetch up at Aba Shanti then go home :D
I see you're picking up the northern turns of phrase from your good lady pieface :)
tarannau
17-08-2007, 10:51
I'm pretty much the same with CMC. Park and chill out space on one side, toilets and a pub all in one conviently open corner pitch. Bubbling and loud DnB all day - it's pretty much no hassle.
:)
crustychick
17-08-2007, 11:25
Oooh, I’ve never been to this before, even when I lived in London – could never really be bothered…. But I’m in town for the bh weekend, might come along…
Probably spend most of my time at Gaz’s cos I just love ‘em!!! Hmmmm, must make arrangements :D
here's a sound system map if anyone needs it. Its from 2006 but year on year the sound systems rarely change sites:
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2068/carnivalmap2006lgvq5.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carnivalmap2006lgvq5.jpg)
EDIT:Just for the Notting hill newbies I found a list of what each system plays (think I posted something similar a while back)
4 Play
West Row near j/w Kensal Road
Music Policy: R&B, Old Skool, Soul, Rap, Bashment, Funky House, Sexy Soul Garage
Aba Shanti-I
East Row j/w Southern Row
Music Policy: 100 percent Roots and Culture
Bass By Any Means Necessary
Ledbury Road j/w Lonsdale Rd
Music Policy: Funk, Soul, Salsa, Brazillian, Soca and Latin Soul
Channel One
Leamington Road Villas
Music Policy: Strictly Roots and Culture
Confusion
St Lukes Road facing Lancaster Road
Music Policy: Soulful House and Garage
CMC/Matrix
All Saints Road opposite The Pelican
Music Policy: Drum n Bass
Different Strokes
Anderson Street
Music Policy: Reggae, R&B, Hip Hop, Revival and a touch of Soca
Disya Jeneration
12 Powis Terrace (stall at 19 Powis Terrace)
Music Policy: R&B, Hip Hop, Bashment, Soca, Calypso and Old Skool
Fun Bunch
41 Talbot Road j/w Sutherland Place
Music Policy: R&B, Hip Hop, Drum ’n Bass, Broken Beat and Garage
Gaz’s Rockin Blues
103 Talbot Road
Music Policy: Ska and Revival
GI Roadshow
Adela Street
Music Policy: Reggae, Bashment, Salsa and R&B
Gladdy Wax Roadshow
304/306 Portobello Road
Music Policy: Roots, Reggae old & new, Ska, Rocksteady and Dub
Good Times
West Row j/w Southern Row
Music Policy: Funky House, Good Times classics
GT FleX Roadshow/Mayhem Crew
St Stephens Gardens/Westbourne Park Villas
Music Policy: R&B, Soul, Ragga, Revival and Old Skool
High on Hope
Bonchurch Road j/w Portobello Road
Music Policy: R&B, Reggae, Hip Hop and Classic Garage
Jah Observer
40 Ledbury Road j/w Talbot Road
Music Policy: Roots and Culture
KCC & The Rocking Crew
Wornington Road
Music Policy: Club Classics and US House
Killerwatt
St Lukes Road outside Metro Club
Music Policy: Across the board, no discrimination
King Tubby’s
Clydesdale Road, outside Clydesdale House
Music Policy: Reggae with regular guests from the Reggae Hall of Fame!
Latin Rave Street Jam
318 Portobello Road
Music Policy: Pure Latin and Salsa
Level Vibes
18 Oxford Gardens facing St Lawrence Terrace
Music Policy: Uplifting House and 70s/80s Soul and Funk
Lord Gellys
47 Cambridge Gardens
Music Policy: Reggae, R&B and Soca
Love TKO (RamJam Radio)
Golborne Gardens j/w Hazelwood Crescent (Hazelwood Tower)
Music Policy: Reggae, R&B, Hip Hop, Revival and Soca
Mangrove Sound
3 All Saints Road
Music Policy: Pure Soca
Mastermind Roadshow
Canal Way/Canalside House
Music Policy: Upfront R&B, Hip Hop, Soul, Old Skool and Reggae
Mellotone
Telford Road near j/w Lionel Mews
Music Policy: Soul, Ragga, R&B, Revival
Metro Glory
Ledbury Road j/w Westbourne Park Road
Music Policy: Ragga, R&B, Hip Hop, House, Garage, Jungle and Roots
Midnight Express 747
Middle Row
Music Policy: Reggae, Soca and Soul
Nasty Love Mixing Lab
Colville Gardens (Middle)
Music Policy: Ragga, Dancehall, R&B and Hip Hop
People's Sound Featuring Sufferer
11 All Saints Road
Music Policy: Ragga, R&B, Hip Hop and Soca
Pineapple Tribe
East Row j/w Southern Row
Music Policy: Techno, Breaks and Beats
Rampage
1 Colville Square, Colville Gardens
Music Policy: Across the Board
Rapattack
23 All Saints Road
Music Policy: Soul, Funk, R&B, Hip Hop, Garage, Old Skool and Rare Groove
Rough But Sweet
Conlon Street j/w East Row
Music Policy: Reggae, R&B, Revival, Lovers, Garage
Sancho Panza
Middle Row facing Conlan Street
Music Policy: Reggae, R&B, Hip Hop, Revival and Soca
Saxon Sounds
St Lawrence Terrace North of j/w Chesterton Road
Music Policy: Ragga and Reggae
Sir Lloyd
54 Leamington Road Villas, Tavistock Road
Music Policy: R&B and Reggae
Sir Valdez
Golborne Road
Music Policy: R&B, Hip Hop and Ragga
Special FX
Opposite 13 Tavistock Road
Music Policy: Dancehall, R&B, Revival and Rare Groove
Studio One Sound
Powis Square (East side)
Music Policy: R&B, Reggae, Hip Hop, Dancehall, Garage and Soca
Virgo International
Outside People’s Theatre, Oxford Gardens
Music Policy: Reggae, Bashment, Soca, Hip Hop, R&B and Garage
http://www.mynottinghill.co.uk/nottinghilltv/community-carnival-systems.htm
I am up for this year yes - had the best Carnival yet last year..weather was so good..found a couple of quality afterparties as well:D
Sancho Panza - I quite like the music but for me the atmosphere is a bit sterile..I like to wander a bit and see what's going on then tend to settle at a rig..are Trouble on Vinyl still going? Used to like their rig but couldn't find it last year:confused:
tarannau
17-08-2007, 12:57
That's the CMC rig mentioned above - been in the same position for as many years as I can remember
rutabowa
17-08-2007, 13:06
i just saw on the map, that is very near channel 1 where i usually go, maybe i will explore further this year... don't want to try to do to much tho.
What will they be playing mate?
I was an absolute pissed up disgrace last year- trying to fight coppers, the lot. :o :(
Techno, Breaks, Bum n Face, Dubstep.
the Labs have to be heard to be believed. 12 is gonna be awesome
I'm getting pretty excited about it this year. I'm a 10min walk from the festivities now but I was away last year. It's gonna be fun.
if i go at all, it'll be to fetch up at Aba Shanti then go home :D
I don't think there's actually any other reason to go at all these days.
EDIT:Just for the Notting hill newbies
or those who have been before but aren't trainspottery about their attendance, yeah? :p
I get mash up and bimble about from one loud repetitive noise to the other usually :cool:
rutabowa
17-08-2007, 15:18
I don't think there's actually any other reason to go at all these days.
eh?
Techno, Breaks, Bum n Face, Dubstep.
the Labs have to be heard to be believed. 12 is gonna be awesome
See you there mate:D
That's what I was thinking.
indeed.
it will be a giggle
DJWrongspeed
17-08-2007, 18:05
is it just me or anyone else worried that this year will turn into a gun/knife extravaganza given the current climate. This won't stop a million people havin an ace time coz it's so huge but it'll be another hammer to force it into Hyde park if it turns that way.
On a more positive note, always go early on sunday if you're new to carnival, you can wander around crowd free and soak up the mad noise, it really is the most mind bending sound art piece ever.
is it just me or anyone else worried that this year will turn into a gun/knife extravaganza given the current climate.
I expect it'll be reported as such.
This won't stop a million people havin an ace time coz it's so huge but it'll be another hammer to force it into Hyde park if it turns that way.
Of course. But I expect it'll still be reported as some sort of hoodie/gun/knife extravaganza.
Can't wait for this, tis my fav' w/end of the year. Sadly my brother wont be with me this year :( cos he's still the other side of the world.
As has been said already, a general wander is good, there's so much to see and hear, you can come across small little systems and have a great time for a bit, then head off wandering again.
There tends to be a Salsa Street so we usually stop there for a cpl of hours then head down to Aba Shanti for a bit.
But the GT bus aint for me, used to be, but not for the last few years really.
the heart of it. No fucking way.
I love getting some jerk etc.. at the end too.
All in all a great day out imo, I've been every year since I came to London and never tire of it.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8011/redstripeub3.jpg
is it just me or anyone else worried that this year will turn into a gun/knife extravaganza given the current climate. This won't stop a million people havin an ace time coz it's so huge but it'll be another hammer to force it into Hyde park if it turns that way.
every year its going to be another 'stabfest' according to the media.
the police have got much better at keeping crime down by paying a few visits beforehand to local 'faces'.
you will always get some crime with that many people though.
i hope Ken doesn't force it in to Hyde Park :mad:
DJWrongspeed
19-08-2007, 09:28
the police have got much better at keeping crime down by paying a few visits beforehand to local 'faces'.
you will always get some crime with that many people though.
i hope Ken doesn't force it in to Hyde Park :mad:
The police are in control,sure, with their velvet glove, I just hope that the preceding fatal violence over the last few mths isn't going to raise it's head here. It does feel alot safer than it used to e.g. mad people jams by R1 stages.
max_freakout
19-08-2007, 09:32
I'll be bobbing along to abashanti most of the weekend i think
The police are in control,sure, with their velvet glove, I just hope that the preceding fatal violence over the last few mths isn't going to raise it's head here. It does feel alot safer than it used to e.g. mad people jams by R1 stages.
They were nuts. I haven't been for years as i've generally tried to be listening to music in a field somewhere over bank hol but am going back this year again.
I get mash up and bimble about from one loud repetitive noise to the other usually :cool:
Oi, that's my plan.
I love carnival, I can't wait :)
just seen this on SJ and it Looks like another fully dnb system this year!:
Random Sound System @ Nottinghill Carnival
Bank Hol Weekend-Sunday/Monday
Londons finest underground drum&bass sound system will be appearing at its usual residence at Nottinghill carnival (Westbourne Park Villas- Mins from royal oak Tube station).
We will be bringing you the finest Djs from our Crew-
Dj Smokescreen & Rob Random,
Jim Random,
Jim Bitch & D-NO,
2D
Bustawidemove,
Karmaterrorist,
DJ Dymond (knowhow records)
DJ Jamma (Digital Rave Music)
and more...............................
Plus
MC's DVS Rigs Vdouble and a Hip hop show from MC Rukas (Winner 2007 Radio 1 Rap Contest) and Dr Hare-Serato Genius.
Directions. Come out of Royal Oak Station, Turn Left, Walk Over Bridge and Take The First Road Right Past the Gosple Church, Paralell with the railway lines. Walk 500m and follow the bass!
Happy Carnival! grin
tarannau
20-08-2007, 12:26
Blimey - ain't seen my old mate Jamma for years, so will try and pop down to this as well. That means moving from the CMC for the first time in years.
:eek: ;)
I haven't been for years as i've generally tried to be listening to music in a field somewhere over bank hol but am going back this year again.
Which day you planning on going mate? I am more up for Monday I think (Stumbleworthy on Saturday).
That Random Sounds thing looks good.
Pineapple Tribe and the 9bar sounds 12 x Labhorn extravaganza will be on Ledubry Road opposite the Walmer Castle Pub.
Onket - dunno yet mate. depends when some mates are going for someones birthday.
rutabowa
20-08-2007, 14:09
i didn't think Random Sounds were "London's finest underground drum and bass sound system", i haven't heard of them doing a party in london for about 2 years.
bluestreak
20-08-2007, 14:16
I don't think there's actually any other reason to go at all these days.
ditto, though CMC is pretty pleasant.
i didn't think Random Sounds were "London's finest underground drum and bass sound system", i haven't heard of them doing a party in london for about 2 years.
no they haven't - they had enough.
they were once though for a while.
Strumpet
20-08-2007, 17:53
Might be around for this!! VERY excited if I am :cool: :D:D
DJWrongspeed
20-08-2007, 18:21
i didn't think Random Sounds were "London's finest underground drum and bass sound system", i haven't heard of them doing a party in london for about 2 years.
Who can blame them? is there a really d'n'b system out there doin it on a regular basis? er no, i remember when they retired from the scene had just got so dark they just had to quit.
rutabowa
21-08-2007, 09:07
Who can blame them? is there a really d'n'b system out there doin it on a regular basis? er no, i remember when they retired from the scene had just got so dark they just had to quit.
don't blame them, but they're advertsing themselves as "London's finest" when they got er scared out of london!!
i prefered Skallywags anyway.
don't blame them, but they're advertsing themselves as "London's finest" when they got er scared out of london!!
i prefered Skallywags anyway.
they were always from Leicester anyway iirc :D
rutabowa
21-08-2007, 09:11
they were always from Leicester anyway iirc :D
yes that's what i though cos all their nights are in Leicester. it's just a bit silly of them.
2007 Map.
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/nottinghill07/maps/soundsystem2007.pdf
DrRingDing
21-08-2007, 10:54
I was an absolute pissed up disgrace last year- trying to fight coppers, the lot. :o :(
I want to join you :D
I'm not doing it again. It wasn't good.
I can't see Random Sounds on that map that's been posted for this year. I also can't see any tube stations. :confused:
Thats because the map is from last year (like I stated in my post) and its not on that map because they were not there last year.
here's a goggle map showing you how to get from the CMC matrix system to the random sounds system if anyone needs it:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=All+Saints+Rd&daddr=Westbourne+Park+Villas,+Westminster,+London+W2,+United+Kingdom&mra=pr&sll=51.519292,-0.203928&sspn=0.001505,0.003648&ie=UTF8&z=16&om=1
Thanks, but I wasn't talking about your one, cos I'm not a fool & can see it's from last year. I'm talking about the one Dan U posted for this year! :p
fair enough, I don't think the random sounds system is a legit one, so am pretty sure it wont be on any map!
The best map I've had was the one from time out that I posted last year, that's got some tube stations on it:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175130
fair enough, I don't think the random sounds system is a legit one, so am pretty sure it wont be on any map!
^^^^
according to my mate who has been attending the BASS meetings they are not legit but just setting up anyway.
The best map I've had was the one from time out that I posted last year, that's got some tube stations on it:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175130
Yeah, that is pretty good. But it's Time Out, so I'm sure they'll be doing one again this year.
<edit2add> If anyone wants to work out where Random will be & photoshop something onto th emap to show it then that'd be good. Seeing as someone has already posted where they will be on here. :)
blossie33
21-08-2007, 12:37
Good luck to them then, I remember going to Carnival a few years ago and my friend and I found a rig playing stuff we really liked up an alleyway - sadly it got closed down not long after as they were not 'official'
Yeah, that is pretty good. But it's Time Out, so I'm sure they'll be doing one again this year.
<edit2add> If anyone wants to work out where Random will be & photoshop something onto th emap to show it then that'd be good. Seeing as someone has already posted where they will be on here. :)
get your A-Z out you lazy fuck :D
or streetmap.co.uk
ffs :D
I can't use photoshop, so that'd be no good.
I can't use photoshop, so that'd be no good.
are you on drugs :confused:
:D
eta - just print off that map i posted earlier, look up the street Random are on, extract a pen from your drawer at work and scribble a little 'X marks the spot' on it.
Not at this exact moment, why?
<edit> Ah, a pen, of course!!!! :rolleyes: at self etc
Not at this exact moment, why?
<edit> Ah, a pen, of course!!!! :rolleyes: at self etc
or write it in your Diary :D
You've got all the answers haven't you!!!
You've got all the answers haven't you!!!
I try to help where i can :(
My top caranival tips......
-Use Aba shanti as base camp/sound system, easy access to at least 8 other systems playing tunes of every genre.
-Get there by going to queens park and avoid crowded, dangerous walks through crushed tube station and surrounding streets...
-Have a wicked time, dance, drink, dance,eat,dance some more then leave using same route. :)
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175130
Great map provided by WWWeed.:)
FabricLiveBaby!
26-08-2007, 17:51
My top caranival tips......
-Get there by going to queens park and avoid crowded, dangerous walks through crushed tube station and surrounding streets...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175130
Great map provided by WWWeed.:)
That is a really good Top Tip. Would have never thought of that. Just multimapped it and it looks cool.
If anyones interested we'll be based around Good Times.
DO you guys reccommend buying drinks there or taking them with you?
ShiftyBagLady
26-08-2007, 21:28
be careful what you take with you because i saw on the news that they awere taking portable metal detectors and sniffer dogs to the tube stations, not that they're expecting trouble or anything
max_freakout
26-08-2007, 21:33
well that was a pretty fucking awesome day!!!! Looking forward to tomorrow!
As I left yesterday all the crews were arriving equipped with screw faces and evil intent, two guy shot I heard?
I lived just off Portobello Rd for 12 years until 2003, but I haven't been to the Carnival since the mid-90's. Too many aggressive twats who go there to make trouble. In the days running up to the Carnival you could feel the tension in the area rising and not in a fun way. Once at the Carnival I got trapped in front of a sound system as the crowd started to get crushed and panicked due to overcrowding. A couple of guys just started to punch people in the head to force their way out and that was the last time for me there. Sadly shootings or stabbings at the Carnival are pretty much to be expected now. Not my idea of a good time.
blossie33
28-08-2007, 07:31
Hadn't heard anything about shooting but I didn't stay right to the end.
Enjoyed the CMC/Matrix rig (one ear still ringing slightly despite the cotton wool) but finally left when the MCing started to irritate me - sorry, I know it's very much the spirit of Carnival but I can only stand so much of it :D
Moved on to the Random rig, they were set up outside a house - presumably with permission! Quite a few people dancing there - was really nice :)
DJ Squelch
28-08-2007, 07:45
1 man stabbed & 2 teenagers shot. Non of them fatal luckily.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6966127.stm
DeadManWalking
28-08-2007, 08:22
1 man stabbed & 2 teenagers shot. Non of them fatal luckily.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6966127.stm
There was no trouble on Sunday, I had the same views as some posters in that I thought it was too much hassle, too many people etc but I went again this year and was pleasantly surprised.
eta: I lied, there was trouble on Sunday http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6963999.stm
We went on Sunday but only stayed for a couple of hours, as I was too shattered from the night before and, well, I'm not a big fan of the carnival anyway, too busy, too difficult to get out of, too agressive, too big...
Having said that I didn't see any trouble on Sunday and everyone seemed to be having a good time (apart from me :) )
e2a:
Actually, just remembered seeing some trouble, but nothing serious, when a sound system stopped playing music and the MC got the crowd to boo someone for trying to mug someone or something. Also saw a gangs of kids just steaming past, pushing everyone out of the way. :(
Magneze's sister, who just moved in the area, went on both days and she actually heard the shots, and ended up diving behind a van to avoid them... Poor thing, I bet she'll be missing the carnival next year!
We left powis gardens just as I saw a crew getting a pastic bag out of a wheelybin. Not good.
Does anyone have a pic from this year of a policeman dancing awkardly with a black woman?
Best Carnival so far for me, it's probably only about my 5th though.
Was with the Random Sounds rig pretty much the whole time apart from one trip we made up to Pineapple Tribe to arrive to find them turned off. Went back to Random Sounds & they stayed on pretty late.
DeadManWalking
28-08-2007, 10:54
Does anyone have a pic from this year of a policeman dancing awkardly with a black woman?
I think I saw one in the metro this morning, not sure if this is the same one
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08/NottingHill_450x300.jpg
When got off the tube we saw at least three people asking to have their photos taken with the police.
brixtonvilla
28-08-2007, 11:07
Had to ask for me phone back off one thieving cunt, got my pockets dipped by another... didn't lose anything, didn't take the shine off a cracking day. Will go again next year (with a money belt, sadly).
pinkmonkey
28-08-2007, 11:13
We went on Sunday but only stayed for a couple of hours, as I was too shattered from the night before and, well, I'm not a big fan of the carnival anyway, too busy, too difficult to get out of, too agressive, too big...
Having said that I didn't see any trouble on Sunday and everyone seemed to be having a good time (apart from me :) )
e2a:
Actually, just remembered seeing some trouble, but nothing serious, when a sound system stopped playing music and the MC got the crowd to boo someone for trying to mug someone or something. Also saw a gangs of kids just steaming past, pushing everyone out of the way. :(
Magneze's sister, who just moved in the area, went on both days and she actually heard the shots, and ended up diving behind a van to avoid them... Poor thing, I bet she'll be missing the carnival next year!
Last time we went my mate was in the queue for the loo when some bloke pushed in with his girlfriend. When confronted by a girl in the queue he pulled a gun on her.
I used to love the music at carnival; (probably still would), but I really cannot be arsed to have to tolerate angry kids, attitude problems and steaming gangs.
I'm officially 'getting too old for this sort of thing.' :)
<has a cup of tea>
Actually a few years ago, I saw a bloke get pickpocketed in front of me (they nicked his phone out of his back pocket), without even thinking, I snatched it off the thief and gave it back. :D
FabricLiveBaby!
28-08-2007, 11:24
I had a FUCKING WIKKID time!
We got off at Bayswater at about 12.45 and decided to walk along the carnival route up to the Good Times sound system where we were meeting some more friends, and also to get the atmosphere of the place because of course, I had never been before. We watched a few floats go by and the costumes were cool but I can’t say I was overly impressed. A lot of the crowds just seemed to be standing there with their arms folded.
We decided after that to take a “short cut” through Ledbury road and across the Pineapple sound system where they were playing some jungle and managed to drop the bass line right in front of the speakers as we were trying to get through. It nearly knocked me off my feet. Then we walked through a cloud of weed past the Jah Observer, and along Westbourne Park Road. The food smells were lovely and I could have eaten al day but we were trying to find bass camp so we though it would be best to get there first. We then walked along Ladbrooke Grove up to where we think the floats started and tried to get over a bridge and it was SOOO crowded.
We got to good times eventually, and met up with the other guys, one of my mates disappeared her cousin (who was also there) was going back to Hungary and wanted to go to Starbucks because they don’t have any there (yeah…. I know… I had the same face too).
Good Times was fantastic, a nice mix of a crowd and a nice mix of music. Everyone was loving it and I danced until my feet fell off.
The two complaints that I do have are the lack of toilet facilities in the area I unwittingly crossed a police line to ask the “nice” coppers where the toilets were. They pointed towards the direction that I had been walking in and when I wasked if I could come back in after I had a slash they said “no” so then I asked if I could go back now because I had 15 of my friends there waiting for me they said “no one’s going in- your friends can come and see you”. Wankers – this was at 6 and I hadn’t been all day. Eventually I just jumped a fence and got back in but it left a sour taste in my mouth ‘cos I only wanted a piss, and didn’t end up going until 9.30. there were plenty of men’s urinals though this didn’t stop the men pissing against anything they could find.
The other thing that bothered my was that towards the end there seemed to be a change in atmosphere and I distinctly remember a lot of kids had come out with the attitude and were just glaring at the pissed people. The walk to queens park was actually quite scary. I saw one kid lying on the floor face down in the middle of the pavement and when somoen tried to find out what was up with him the other dodgy looking kids around him were saying “nah, let him sleep blad!” or something.
All in all though was wikkid. Will go again next year – but in fancy dress.
Best Carnival so far for me, it's probably only about my 5th though.
Was with the Random Sounds rig pretty much the whole time apart from one trip we made up to Pineapple Tribe to arrive to find them turned off. Went back to Random Sounds & they stayed on pretty late.
oh mate that was a shame! Pineapple Tribe/9bar was sick. Big up the 12 lab horns. Unreal Bass and Pineapple Tribe know how to bring the party.
http://photos-125.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v120/102/123/719745125/n719745125_423512_420.jpg
oh mate that was a shame! Pineapple Tribe/9bar was sick. Big up the 12 lab horns. Unreal Bass and Pineapple Tribe know how to bring the party.
http://photos-125.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v120/102/123/719745125/n719745125_423512_420.jpg
Got there around 3..wandered around a few systems, hearing a good mix of stuff, even swayed to rnb at one point..or maybe that was just the rum punch in effect - came across the 9bar rig near the end, nice mix of jungle and acid tekno - the system was:cool: , the bassline, I'm sure I got a bit of G-force when the jungle basslines were blasting out in my face:D
Was one of my better carnivals, the weather does make such a difference..saw a bit of steaming from twats..seemed to be more police than in previous years or maybe that was my imagination:confused:
oh mate that was a shame! Pineapple Tribe/9bar was sick. Big up the 12 lab horns. Unreal Bass and Pineapple Tribe know how to bring the party.
http://photos-125.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v120/102/123/719745125/n719745125_423512_420.jpg
Was there no black people at carnival this year? :D
Was there no black people at carnival this year? :D
yeah of course :D
Got there around 3..wandered around a few systems, hearing a good mix of stuff, even swayed to rnb at one point..or maybe that was just the rum punch in effect - came across the 9bar rig near the end, nice mix of jungle and acid tekno - the system was:cool: , the bassline, I'm sure I got a bit of G-force when the jungle basslines were blasting out in my face:D
Was one of my better carnivals, the weather does make such a difference..saw a bit of steaming from twats..seemed to be more police than in previous years or maybe that was my imagination:confused:
There was a lot more police than in previous years, yes, they seemed to be everywhere! (We went on Sunday though, but I'd imagine they used a similar amount of police on Monday, if not more)
They reckon this year had a lot less incidents than in previous years due to the police being 'pro-active', i.e. being allowed to stop and search.
Carnival is one of the few times i am quite happy to see lots of police.
I think I saw one in the metro this morning, not sure if this is the same one
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08/NottingHill_450x300.jpg
When got off the tube we saw at least three people asking to have their photos taken with the police.
Perfect.
was a wicked two days, still recovering from it I think, too many red stripes and stellas!
Got a bit moody after 8 especially on the monday, but still didn't have any trouble.
LMFAO
posted by a mate on another forum
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5449/oboz8.jpg
I went down both days, had a wicked time both days. Didn't see any trouble on the Monday, apart from a few groups of people ramming their way though crowds, but the vibe is definitely more friendly on Sunday.
Spent most time at aba Shanti on Sunday, in a stoned daze. There, and lots of aimless wandering. Glady Wax were playing some proper good sunshine tunes.
Wandered past Gaz's Rocking Blues on Monday, just as a band started playing superhero tv programme themes. I liked the comic book "set" they'd built.
DeadManWalking
29-08-2007, 08:10
I spent a lot of time at Gaz's rockin blues, great as always.
LMFAO
posted by a mate on another forum
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5449/oboz8.jpg
Proof that some police have a sense of humour ?:D
Didn't make it to carnival until about 4-ish...
Spent my time as planned at Abashanti, Pow pow, sancho panza and good times...it was cool.....didn't see any trouble at all.
Did notice that the police line at the bridge over the canal that was pulling people for random searches was ONLY pulling young black men....when we came over there were 10 searches happening, and other coppers scanning the bridge for other targets..... :(
Apart from that had a great time....:)
detective-boy
29-08-2007, 16:08
Did notice that the police line at the bridge over the canal that was pulling people for random searches was ONLY pulling young black men....when we came over there were 10 searches happening, and other coppers scanning the bridge for other targets..... :(
How long did you observe for? And what was the street population of black, white, asian or whatever young men? And are you aware of the descriptions of most people reported using weapons at the Carnival?
tarannau
29-08-2007, 16:20
TBH that got my wick as well DB. There were officers at Green Park with a metal detecting arch who were doing exactly the same thing; a constant flow of people with only black folks being pulled aside. Point taken about the statistical probability, but the way they were speaking and acting got my goat. I can't say I was there long and I should have said something, but discretion became the better part of valour - I suspect I would have next to be searched had I even vaguely spoken up.
Message to gangster-wannabees going to carnival - give your weapon to someone white.
:(
rutabowa
29-08-2007, 16:23
just for balance, not that it proves anything either way, a white friend of mine got pulled leaving Westbourne Park station.
tarannau
29-08-2007, 16:51
And, in a further bit of balance, the only real trouble I saw was committed by two gingers trying to pick a fight (with anyone) in the green near the CMC rig. Pretty much everyone in the park steered clear of the little shits and their bottles, blowing horns, whistles and generally standing up and videoing them until the police arrived in numbers. A very modern conflict...
rutabowa
29-08-2007, 16:59
ah yeh, CMC was actually pretty decent, 1st time i have been there.
How long did you observe for? Long enough
And what was the street population of black, white, asian or whatever young men?
Very mixed crowd coming over the bridge, women and non Caribbean/African looking men were left to pass unchallenged.
And are you aware of the descriptions of most people reported using weapons at the Carnival?
No idea.
Got a point to make?
I suspect I would have next to be searched had I even vaguely spoken up.
Message to gangster-wannabees going to carnival - give your weapon to someone white.
:(
Whether DB likes it or not, you are right.
So what tarannau has done there, is exactly what the coppers did- assume all 'gangster-wannabees going to carnival' are non-white.
So what tarannau has done there, is exactly what the coppers did- assume all 'gangster-wannabees going to carnival' are non-white.
Point taken Onket, but to be fair I think he was trying to make the point that white people didn't seem to be getting searched.
But they were (see rutabowa's post), just not as many, surely, and that's down to percentages as DB pointed out.
But everything he says is bollocks isn't it.
I don't want to argue with anyone today. :(
But they were (see rutabowa's post), just not as many, surely, and that's down to percentages as DB pointed out.
Onket love no arguments here.
Whatever Rutabowa and DB say, I reported on the situation I witnessed I was standing on the other side of the bridge for at least half an hour watching the parade and although lots of white men were coming over the bridge as well not one of them or any women were pulled. Uncomfortable truth. but the truth anyway.
But everything he says is bollocks isn't it.
I don't know to be honest. He seems like an intelligent bloke.
I don't want to argue with anyone today. :(
Been at the bloody capers again have you? :p
Didn't make it to carnival until about 4-ish...
Spent my time as planned at Abashanti, Pow pow, sancho panza and good times...it was cool.....didn't see any trouble at all.
Did notice that the police line at the bridge over the canal that was pulling people for random searches was ONLY pulling young black men....when we came over there were 10 searches happening, and other coppers scanning the bridge for other targets..... :(
Apart from that had a great time....:)
Admittedly it's only one example, but my friend got searched, and he's white.
Admittedly it's only one example, but my friend got searched, and he's white.
See above post....my observations were made at one entry point. I accept white people got searched, just not where I was they didn't.
Onket love no arguments here.
:cool:
Whatever Rutabowa and DB say,
And Xanadu now too!! :p
I'm just bloody pleased I wasn't searched anyway.
Oh, come on, everyone knows that you're more likely to get searched if you're black. Even more so if you're young, black and wearing a hoodie.
Don't know why people are even disputing that.
Yes, the police will also have searched white people, but I bet most people they searched fitted the criteria above, because of what other people said: police assumptions regarding who's more likely to commit crimes at the carnival.
Whether those assumptions are based on reality or prejudice I really don't know. I don't have the facts and figures. But someone somewhere must do.
Some carnival photos, although I wasn't feeling very inspired and was only there for a couple of hours, so they're a bit meh... (althoug alef really likes one of them which is :cool::cool::cool:)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/plasmatika/sets/72157601744552824/
e2a: the very first time I went to Notting Hill, in 1990, someone tried to grab my camera off my hand, but only managed to get it dropped on the ground, the back opened... I still managed to put the film back in a take a couple of photos... That happened after I'd been there for about 10 minutes... :(
rutabowa
30-08-2007, 10:56
Oh, come on, everyone knows that you're more likely to get searched if you're black. Even more so if you're young, black and wearing a hoodie.
Don't know why people are even disputing that.
i don't think anyone was disputing that, i definitely wasn't. i was only saying what my experience was, which is all i can do.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 11:24
Got a point to make?
Yes, several.
A small number of random observations prove nothing. If you claim they do, you are doing exactly what you are accusing the police of - stereotyping.
It is well-documented that most of the crimes involving weapons (the principle target of the search operation) involve young men. It is probable that the vast majority of the intelligence about threats of trouble this year involved young men. Hence the focus on young men is entirely justified. And before you could tell whether that was then racially biased, you would need to know the street population of young men by race (which, I very strongly suspect, would be very significantly black).
And it would be entirely appropriate to target demographics known to have been involved in using weapons to commit crime either earlier in the Carnival this year or ion previous years events. And it would not surprise me to find that that was heavily skewed towards young black males, too.
So, in the light of all that, what you decsribe is far from the cut-and-dried racism that you insinuate.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 11:27
Uncomfortable truth. but the truth anyway.
Most street robbers in some areas of Inner London are young black males.
Uncomfortable truth, but the truth anyway.
And, on it's own, equally unenlightening as to the bigger picture as your random observation of a couple of minutes stop and search activity by a few of the hundreds of police officers on duty.
tarannau
30-08-2007, 11:30
Hence the focus on young men is entirely justified. And before you could tell whether that was then racially biased, you would need to know the street population of young men by race (which, I very strongly suspect, would be very significantly black).
.
With the greatest of respect DB, the 'street population' of young men at both Green Park station and the carnival as a whole is far from as 'significantly black' as the searches tend to be. Look at that Pineapple Tribe photo for example - ok, it's a slightly unusual example, but the carnival as a whole is far more mixed than you seem to be suggesting.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 11:30
See above post....my observations were made at one entry point. I accept white people got searched, just not where I was they didn't....
... well, not out of the ten I saw during the few minutes I observed what was happening.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 11:31
Whether those assumptions are based on reality or prejudice I really don't know.
Probably both, but, especially in the context of the carnival, more on reality than prejudice. Anyone notice what colour / age / sex the people doing the steaming, etc. were?
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 11:37
Look at that Pineapple Tribe photo for example - ok, it's a slightly unusual example, but the carnival as a whole is far more mixed than you seem to be suggesting.
I know it is overall - and it is getting more mixed every year - but when you ask about young males, particularly young males in groups as opposed to with girlfriend or whatever, the demographic changes significantly. I have no idea what it was at the point described by Rutita1. My point is simply that without knowing it is impossible to yell "Racism!".
I know it is overall - and it is getting more mixed every year - but when you ask about young males, particularly young males in groups as opposed to with girlfriend or whatever, the demographic changes significantly. I have no idea what it was at the point described by Rutita1. My point is simply that without knowing it is impossible to yell "Racism!".
Whatever you say Db, you were not with me and the lads getting pulled were not in groups, wearing hoodies, etc as such.
They were with girlfriends, in pairs etc....And for your information Nobody on this thread has shouted racism.
I my experience, the stop and search profiling hasn't changed that much since I was a kid growing up here in the seventies and that's a fact.
Probably both, but, especially in the context of the carnival, more on reality than prejudice. Anyone notice what colour / age / sex the people doing the steaming, etc. were?
Didn't see any steaming so can't comment.
Most street robbers in some areas of Inner London are young black males.
Uncomfortable truth, but the truth anyway.
Is anyone denying this?
And, on it's own, equally unenlightening as to the bigger picture as your random observation of a couple of minutes stop and search activity by a few of the hundreds of police officers on duty.
See my above post about growing up here in London.
tarannau
30-08-2007, 11:52
I know it is overall - and it is getting more mixed every year - but when you ask about young males, particularly young males in groups as opposed to with girlfriend or whatever, the demographic changes significantly. I have no idea what it was at the point described by Rutita1. My point is simply that without knowing it is impossible to yell "Racism!".
I know, but the police haven't exactly got a good record at not stopping a disproportionate amount of BME males.
I think it was the style and manner of the police on the arch that got my wick to be fair - the usual lack of subtlety and sensitivity. The looked utterly disinterested, talking to each other, as most walked through, but suddenly sprang into strutting, loud action when a small group of youths went past. It could have been better handled tbf. I know they were being singled out, perhaps even for good reason, but it didn't have to made so obvious to the whole station.
So, in the light of all that, what you decsribe is far from the cut-and-dried racism that you insinuate.
Get off your high horse DB, I made a comment about the searches the police were doing, it pissed me off. I did not shout down with all coppers, I don't do that. I didn't shout racism either. I did comment however on the stop and search profiling that was evidently in operation.
To be fair, posters have complained that they only saw black males being searched. DB has given a perfectly acceptable explanation for this and in addition people have stated that they say white males being stopped & searched.
Why are people still bickering? :rolleyes:
To be fair, posters have complained that they only saw black males being searched. DB has given a perfectly acceptable explanation for this and in addition people have stated that they say white males being stopped & searched.
Why are people still bickering? :rolleyes:
Bickering? You sound like my gran :)
Anyway whilst DB's points and other posters saying they saw non-black men getting searched are valid and accepted, my annoyance was that during a half an hour period I only saw YBM getting pulled and searched, none were arrested however.
I can assume then that they had nothing/did nothing to be arrested for and the things that the police were seeking could have been in the hands or others. Others that because didn't fit the profile, were allowed to pass. It's a valid observation, throwing statistics that I am already aware of and accept at me, changes nothing.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 13:04
....And for your information Nobody on this thread has shouted racism.
So what exactly was the point of your original post:
Did notice that the police line at the bridge over the canal that was pulling people for random searches was ONLY pulling young black men....when we came over there were 10 searches happening, and other coppers scanning the bridge for other targets.....
Please enlighten us. Particularly about the capitalised "ONLY" ... :confused:
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 13:08
I can assume then that they had nothing/did nothing to be arrested for and the things that the police were seeking could have been in the hands or others.
Er ... yes.
The vast majority of people stopped and searched are not then arrested. Unless you insist that police officers only be recruited if they have psychic powers, that will always be the case. The officers usually have to record what those grounds were, a copy of the record is supplied to the person concerned. If the person concerned wants to take issue with the grounds, they can complain.
So what exactly was the point of your original post:
Please enlighten us. Particularly about the capitalised "ONLY" ... :confused:
Reporting my day at carnival, annoyances and all...as well you know!
tarannau
30-08-2007, 13:11
How can you can you complain against 'fits the description of' though DB? It's the only excuse the police always give for S&S and it's such a get out of jail 'catch-all' phrase that it's difficult to see how a complaint would work.
The officers usually have to record what those grounds were, a copy of the record is supplied to the person concerned.
That is priceless......How many records do you really think had 'fits the profile' written on them?:D
Or maybe they had 'crossed the bridge in a suspicious manner' written on them...:rolleyes:
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 13:16
I know, but the police haven't exactly got a good record at not stopping a disproportionate amount of BME males.
I think it was the style and manner of the police on the arch that got my wick to be fair - the usual lack of subtlety and sensitivity.
I would not disagree with that. And it probably still persists in some situations and in some areas, albeit not as much as some would have you believe - it is a far more complex issue than it first appears, not least when you try and factor in the demographics of the available population for stop and search (at least one study, by Marion Fitzgerald when she was at the Home Office, suggested that based on street population white youths were disproportionately stopped and searched in Brixton).
In the context of weapons going to Carnival, I would suggest that a focus on young males was entirely justifiable and it would be entirely feasible to justify young black males for attention. On it's own that would not be enough for a search but it would be enough to focus attention and ask questions.
Your point about it being how the searches are conducted which is most annoying - I would 100% agree. In almost every case where I have heard someone complain about a stop and search, "how" has been at least as important as "why" (and frequently the only concern, there being acceptance that a genuine reason to conduct the search existed).
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 13:23
How can you can you complain against 'fits the description of' though DB? It's the only excuse the police always give for S&S and it's such a get out of jail 'catch-all' phrase that it's difficult to see how a complaint would work.
I'm not sure it is the "only" one. If it is challenged then the officer needs to produce the incident or crime report from which the description arises. Even in high crime areas it would usually be difficult to find a relevant incident or crime as a vague (black, male, slim, about 5'10", 16-20) description would not be enough on it's own (it would be enough to merit speaking and what then ensued may add further grounds).
If complaints are made, they are analysed even if there is insufficient evidence to proceed in the individual case (just like with volume crime). If the same officer keeps having the same allegation made the analysis will eventually through their name up and some proactive action may well be taken. I did that analysis myself when I ran a team in Brixton. There is no reason why it cannot be done at sergeant / inspector level on a team ... but, as I have posted previously, there are insufficient sergeants and inspectors around and some of them are not the best. But if complaints are made sooner or later something will happen - the bosses really do not like / want piles of complaints.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 13:25
That is priceless......How many records do you really think had 'fits the profile' written on them?:D
Or maybe they had 'crossed the bridge in a suspicious manner' written on them...:rolleyes:
If they had either of those things written on them a complaint would succeed because neither is sufficient objective grounds to merit a search.
If they had either of those things written on them a complaint would succeed because neither is sufficient objective grounds to merit a search.
Two things...whilst reports should be written and a copy given, this is not always the case.
IME Not many people complain about this profiling as it isn't anything new and people have accepted it.
detective-boy
30-08-2007, 14:02
Two things...whilst reports should be written and a copy given, this is not always the case.
IME Not many people complain about this profiling as it isn't anything new and people have accepted it.
Complain about the lack of a record then - again it is something which will eventually generate action if it is always the same officer complained of.
And there is no formal "profiling". If there is any improper bias, racial or otherwise, it is down to the individual officers. They are not just following orders or anything like that. The police service has not "accepted" disproportionality in stop and search or any other activity. Nor has any other body concerned with the issue. There are constant complaints on an individual and local area basis.
skyscraper101
30-08-2007, 14:11
I was down at the end of Lonsdale Road at the Ninebar Sound System..(Is that it's name? I can't remember..help please!)
There were some pretty funky breakbeat grooves going on and some equally funky people dancing in the street :cool:
It was Pineapple Tribe, but Ninebar were involved too.
skyscraper101
30-08-2007, 16:10
It was Pineapple Tribe, but Ninebar were involved too.
Ahh yes that's the one! Pineapple tribe. Brilliant vibe...everyone dancing in the sun, cold beers in hand, hardly any police at all. That for me was the best part about the whole carnival bar none. :cool:
We went up a few more streets to a couple more sound systems and the vibe was completely different. Some parts felt very edgy and tense and overcrowded and there were more police and paramedics around as if anticipating something will kick off. :(
Complain about the lack of a record then - again it is something which will eventually generate action if it is always the same officer complained of.
And there is no formal "profiling". If there is any improper bias, racial or otherwise, it is down to the individual officers. They are not just following orders or anything like that. The police service has not "accepted" disproportionality in stop and search or any other activity. Nor has any other body concerned with the issue. There are constant complaints on an individual and local area basis.
Whether you like it or not DB a lot of what you say is true, or works in theory but not necesxsary in the everyday attitudes and behaviour of the police service.
You say there is no 'formal' profiling but what I saw was obvious 'profiling', not conducted by solitary, individual officers, but by a large group of officers.
Get over it.
But we've established there is a reason for it Rutita. It looks like it's you that needs to get over it.
But we've established there is a reason for it Rutita.
Are you for real? ....there is always a reason for it? Are you sure?
Did you read the bit where I said none of them were arrested? What was the reason you weren't searched Onket? Luck?
It looks like it's you that needs to get over it.
Nice one, super, cheers for that.
Perhaps I did't look/act dodgy. Or they weren't looking for people fitting my description? What are you getting at?
And yes, I am for real. DB has outlined clearly why more black males are stopped & searched. Not that he needed to, I already knew why they are.
Perhaps I did't look/act dodgy.
Well lucky you. BTW, What's dodgey about crossing a bridge with a multiracial crowd? They weren't hooded up looking rough, being aggressive.
Or they weren't looking for people fitting my description? What are you getting at?
Well exactly Onket, and profiling doesn't go on?
And yes, I am for real. DB has outlined clearly why more black males are stopped & searched. Not that he needed to, I already knew why they are.
I already knew why BM are frequently stopped and searched. So what? I can still be annoyed when I see profiling in operation, especially when none of those being searched were being arrested, why? Because they had done nothing wrong.
tarannau
30-08-2007, 17:08
Be fair Onket. The 'get over it' excuse has been said to every victim of S&S since time immemorial. Similar was said on both on the eve and after the Brixton riots - thank gawd Scarman's report was far more damning and influential than politicians like Thatcher and senior police wanted to accept at the time.
Things have improved massively since the days of the sus laws of course, but you're still hugely and disproportionately more likely to be stopped if you're young and black. It's still a sensitive issue around my way and rightly so - friends aren't stopped as often as they used to be, but it's still comparatively common and builds up resentment against the police. I can't speak for Rutita's experience, but I can say that they way that the police were acting at the station I saw, coupled with their lack of sensitivity, made me very uncomfortable.
Because they had done nothing wrong.
Surely most people who are stopped have done nothing wrong.
Anyway, apologies for the 'get over it' thing. I was just saying what you said back at you.
I think I said before that I don't want to argue with anyone. I just don't think it's realistic to complain about stops & searches when exactly the same people who usually commit the crime are being stopped.
Do you complain about Trident (is that what it's called?) being aimed at black males re gun crime?
Surely most people who are stopped have done nothing wrong.
Anyway, apologies for the 'get over it' thing. I was just saying what you said back at you. That comment was to DB because however much he knows the law and th policies adopted by the police service he can't speak for and justify everything they do on the street.
I think I said before that I don't want to argue with anyone. I just don't think it's realistic to complain about stops & searches when exactly the same people who usually commit the crime are being stopped.
That suggests the 20 or so that were searched and let go whilst I was watching usually commit crimes.
Do you complain about Trident (is that what it's called?) being aimed at black males re gun crime? Why?
For God's sake, you know that I mean they look like the type of people who usually commit the crimes.
Trident- Cos of who it's aimed at.
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 09:29
They weren't hooded up looking rough, being aggressive.
Who's profiling now? Not all potential weapon carriers are "hooded up" and "look rough" (whatever that might mean).
My original point still stands. There are several possible explanations for the focus to be on young black males but (a) you don't actually know whether it was and (b) you don't know what the explanation was, or the information behind it, if it was.
You also seem to be labouring under the misapprehansion that only people who have done something wrong are stopped and searched. How can that possibly be the case? It is a tactic intended to find any evidence of crime which can then be acted upon. If you insisted that the police only stop and search those known to have done wrong then they'd just arrest them (not that there would be many) rather than stop and search them, because you'd be insisting they already had enough evidence to prove wrongdoing before acting.
YOU have jumped to the conclusion that the police were acting on racial motivation (and your mealy-mouthed denials of that simply won't wash, as you well know). They MAY have been, they MAY not. We simply don't know.
Get over it.
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 09:32
That comment was to DB because however much he knows the law and th policies adopted by the police service he can't speak for and justify everything they do on the street.
I don't. You an several others seem to perceive that I do. But that, I suspect, is because you do not actually read and think about what I am posting and just knee-jerk into a reaction.
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 09:34
Original version of story:
....when we came over there were 10 searches happening,
Revised version of story:
That suggests the 20 or so that were searched and let go whilst I was watching
I do love a reliable and consistent witness ... :rolleyes:
I don't. You an several others seem to perceive that I do. But that, I suspect, is because you do not actually read and think about what I am posting and just knee-jerk into a reaction.
On the contary DB, I do read and think about what you post, as I said before you make a lot of sense, especially as I am already aware of much of it.
However, there are no absolutes and whether there is X law of Y policy you can't speak for the police force as a whole and definately can't undermine peoples thoughts and experiences by throwing statistics at them.
As for what I perceive and knee jerk reactions, surely that's your perception. Pot, kettle, black etc....:)
Original version of story:
....when we came over there were 10 searches happening,
Note I said when I came over the bridge.....
revised version of story:
I do love a reliable and consistent witness ... :rolleyes:
You missed out the post when I said I stood around watching the parade for half an hour.......
So don't roll you pissy eyes at me sir, when YOU obviously haven't taken the time to read or quote my posts in a fair and objective manner.
In fact, what you have done here is deliberately misrepresent what I've posted to have a pathetic dig at me. Very nice.
Is this where I make a comment about not being able to trust policemen? Surely that would be ignorant of me, wouldn't it? :)
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 12:02
In fact, what you have done here is deliberately misrepresent what I've posted to have a pathetic dig at me. Very nice.
No. What I've done is point out that there is insufficient information available to come to the instant conclusion you obviously reached (despite your subsequent denials). Why is it so difficult for you to accept that there may well be more to the situation than you assumed?
No. What I've done is point out that there is insufficient information available to come to the instant conclusion you obviously reached (despite your subsequent denials).
My conclusion and annoyance was based upon what I saw at the location I was at. I have accepted that other people observed other things at different locations.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept that there may well be more to the situation than you assumed? *BIG YAWN* Read the above and many other posts that have said the same thing.
Original version of story:
Revised version of story:
I do love a reliable and consistent witness ... :rolleyes:
My comments about misrepresentation and having cheap shots were made after you nastily posted the above. As well you know.
Rod Liddle's article in today's Spectator takes a different line from the usual gushing enthusiasm for the Notting Hill Carnival.
A carnival of criminality: Who really knows how much crime goes on at the Notting Hill Carnival? (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/118206/who-really-knows-how-much-crime-goes-on-at-the-notting-hill-carnival.thtml)
Warning: Those of tender sensibilities who think that only a nasty upsetting old Ray Cyst misery-guts would talk about crime being rife at the NHC are advised not to read the article.
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 13:00
My conclusion and annoyance was based upon what I saw at the location I was at.
So what exactly do you think you saw there? :confused:
Racially based profiling? (In which case your annoyance would be justified, but which you have denied)
Or profiling based on some justifiable basis? (In which case why are you annoyed?)
So what exactly do you think you saw there? :confused:
Racially based profiling? (In which case your annoyance would be justified, but which you have denied)
Or profiling based on some justifiable basis? (In which case why are you annoyed?)
Again, what I saw was ONLY Black men being pulled out of a multiracial crowd at this location. Whilst I accept the statistics on who is most likely to commit crimes in some areas, caranival attracts people from all over the country and in fact the world. None of the people I saw pulled were arrested, which means they had nothing/did nothing wrong.
Meanwhile the world and his wife crosses the bridge unharrassed many of which could have been carrying things the police were interested in. That annoys me.
You have denied that racial profiling goes on. I'm saying I saw it in action at that particular location, justifiable or not.
Apart from that I had a lovely time.
I didn't cross that bridge.
tarannau
31-08-2007, 14:04
No. What I've done is point out that there is insufficient information available to come to the instant conclusion you obviously reached (despite your subsequent denials). Why is it so difficult for you to accept that there may well be more to the situation than you assumed?
Does this really matter DB? My perception of the operation, and of other bystanders, was exactly the same as Rutita's.
When you and your friends been stopped and searched for the umpteenth time, you don't generally think 'actually I think there must be more to the situation than I assumed.' You just tend to feel an overwhelming sense of unfairness and resentment at the police. It's a bit like the boy who cried wolf too many times - the police have given too many duff reasons for S&S's in the past for folks to take them at face value.
I reckon you should just think something about it being a shame that
A fuck it :rolleyes:
I didn't cross that bridge.
:p You know what I meant.
tarannau
31-08-2007, 14:19
Rod Liddle's article in today's Spectator takes a different line from the usual gushing enthusiasm for the Notting Hill Carnival.
A carnival of criminality: Who really knows how much crime goes on at the Notting Hill Carnival? (http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/118206/who-really-knows-how-much-crime-goes-on-at-the-notting-hill-carnival.thtml)
Warning: Those of tender sensibilities who think that only a nasty upsetting old Ray Cyst misery-guts would talk about crime being rife at the NHC are advised not to read the article.
Oh please, Rod Liddle's the most try-hard controversialist I know. You can tell his agenda when he starts trying to play fast and loose with the figures, claiming that only 700,000 people can be 'reliably' counted to be at the carnival this year, comparing it to an estimated 1.5 million in 2000. Strangely enough, guess what the estimated attendance was this year:
Organisers said some 1.5 million people had flocked to Notting Hill over the three days - roughly the same amount as last year.
That's from the eternal friend of the carnival, the Daily Mail, by the way.
Organisers said 1.5 million. Police said 600,000. Who cares?
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 14:26
None of the people I saw pulled were arrested, which means they had nothing/did nothing wrong.
Meanwhile the world and his wife crosses the bridge unharrassed many of which could have been carrying things the police were interested in. That annoys me.
So (despite mentioning it again) you do not seem to be alleging racial profiling.
And your annoyance seems to be that (a) many people who were stopped and searched (quite possibly on genuine reasonable grounds to suspect) were not found to be carrying anything untoward whilst (simultaneously) (b) lots of other people who weren't could have been.
Okay. So what is the answer (assuming that no-one has sixth sense and has any way of knowing that someone is carrying something for sure. Do you support entirely random searches (so that all the other people were equally likely to get searched)? Or do you support the abandoning of all searches based on suspicion, requiring intervention only when an officer knows an offence is being committed (which can be roughly translated as abandoning all attempts to deal with many crimes)? Clearly you do not support the status quo - searches permitted but only on specific, objective, reasonable grounds to suspect.
detective-boy
31-08-2007, 14:27
Does this really matter DB? My perception of the operation, and of other bystanders, was exactly the same as Rutita's.
Same question as ^^^ to you. What exactly do you want?
tarannau
31-08-2007, 14:49
Same question as ^^^ to you. What exactly do you want?
Maybe a bit of decent communication and some politeness from the officers on duty?
Try and put yourself in the mind of a black youth approaching the barriers. You can see the officers and arch in the distance, but it's all fairly relaxed - offices are chatting to themselves and people are walking through without incident. You and your pals walk towards the barriers and the mood quickly changes, ears prick up, officers look suddenly more attentive and someone's flagging you over in plain view of the whole station - 'can you go through here'
TBH I haven't any easy answers. It's divisive, unpleasant and happens with tiresome regularity. It's difficult not to feel resentful when you see the same discriminatory pattern being played out again and again.
What's the efficacy of these points like anyway? Surely anyone carrying would see them in the distance and turn round and find alternate methods of transport. Are they worth the aggravation and ill feeling they cause?
tarannau
31-08-2007, 14:52
Organisers said 1.5 million. Police said 600,000. Who cares?
Well, obviously Liddle - who's bloody leading article you quoted - cared enough to deliberately confuse and mislead with those very figures.
So (despite mentioning it again) you do not seem to be alleging racial profiling.
.
FFS DB did you actually read all of the post you selectively quoted?
Here I'll do it for you....from post 159
You have denied that racial profiling goes on. I'm saying I saw it in action at that particular location, justifiable or not.
Clearly you do not support the status quo - searches permitted but only on specific, objective, reasonable grounds to suspect.
Dear god...objective?...surely you mean subjective?...What I saw seemed to be a policy of some black men commit crime so let's search all of them and not bother with anyone else.
Well, obviously Liddle - who's bloody leading article you quoted - cared enough to deliberately confuse and mislead with those very figures.He calls the plod figure 'reliable'. How does that confuse or mislead? Your claiming that he had claimed 700,000, rather than 600,000, was misleading, but I'm not sure that it matters much.
tarannau
31-08-2007, 15:23
Oh come on, why would you compare the 'plod' figures for this year with the estimated figures for 2000 unless you were trying to make a smartarse point? Why not compare like for like? Either Liddle's being particularly stupid, or he's trying to score a cheap controversy and mislead with the figures.
Oh come on, why would you compare the 'plod' figures for this year with the estimated figures for 2000 unless you were trying to make a smartarse point? Why not compare like for like? Either Liddle's being particularly stupid, or he's trying to score a cheap controversy and mislead with the figures.
As far as I know, his source for the two years was the same (plod). I can't be arsed to check out whether that's so. You do it, if you want.
tarannau
31-08-2007, 15:38
As far as I know, his source for the two years was the same (plod). I can't be arsed to check out whether that's so. You do it, if you want.
Well thanks for that. Perhaps it's incumbent on you to actually verify the truthfulness of the source you're quoting.
Here's a tip: if you take Liddle at face value you're an idiot. He's a ludicrous wankstain of a writer.
I did rather get the impression you didn't like him. Your dislike might explain why you have gone on about him but have been unable to report his article correctly. Never mind. If he gets up your nose, don't read him.
tarannau
31-08-2007, 15:56
I did rather get the impression you didn't like him. Your dislike might explain why you have gone on about him but have been unable to report his article correctly. Never mind. If he gets up your nose, don't read him.
No, I'm slightly amazed that you didn't realise the reason behind the discrepancy between those figures. When Liddle, well known for playing fast and loose with the facts, starts adding provisos like 'the only reliable figures for this year that I can find' you can take it for granted that he's not comparing like for like.
Are you really that naive? Liddle's bombastic nonsense may occasionally be amusing, but you'd have to be a special kind of idjut to take that at face value.
No, I'm slightly amazed that you didn't realise the reason behind the discrepancy between those figures. When Liddle, well known for playing fast and loose with the facts, starts adding provisos like 'the only reliable figures for this year that I can find' you can take it for granted that he's not comparing like for like.
Are you really that naive?
I think you are bit fuckin' paranoid about him!
Anyway.... since you have gone to the trouble of reading (at least some of) an article by someone who really gets up your nose and want to post about it, why not respond to the gist of the article - i.e., that the NHC is crime-ridden, but the crime is downplayed - instead of making up nonsense about (and misreporting) his suggestion that the numbers attending have declined?
tarannau
31-08-2007, 16:22
Nope, I'm being realistic about Liddle's writing. You honestly never noticed his hyperbole and misuse of stats before? It's virtually a speciality - I actually can't believe how credulous you are.
Here's an example of criticism of Liddle. it's a common perception.
http://www.mattmurrell.blogspot.com/2006/12/trouble-with-rod-liddle.html
It's difficult to treat an article too seriously with that distortion in mind. My gut feel, after going to carnival for over 20 years, is that it's not as violent as it used to be a few years back. I also suspect that reported crimes are up because more people are likely to report them these days - it may be the tip of the iceberg, but you're also increasingly getting a wider cross-section of people there, some of whom are far more likely to report crime than the original West Indian community.
FWIW, I've seen far less examples of steaming and random violence on bystanders in recent years. What I think is fair to say is that I suspect that more gangs and crews are using it as a place to settle scores and mark their areas.
What do you think of the article JHE? Think it's an honest reflection of carnival and Liddle well placed to comment?
Your impression is that it's not getting worse. I dunno. Even if that's so, it seems pretty bloody crime-ridden.
The thing I find so extraordinary is that there can be such awful crime year after year - including (this year) shootings, stabbings, muggings and 'steaming' - and this is just accepted as a normal part of Carnival.
Ahh yes that's the one! Pineapple tribe. Brilliant vibe...everyone dancing in the sun, cold beers in hand, hardly any police at all. That for me was the best part about the whole carnival bar none. :cool:
We went up a few more streets to a couple more sound systems and the vibe was completely different. Some parts felt very edgy and tense and overcrowded and there were more police and paramedics around as if anticipating something will kick off. :(
yeah it was fat. Ninebars immense rig and Pineapple Tribe DJ's :cool:
my only comment on Carnival policing is an anecdote told to me by a friend of mine who is a Sergeant in the Met. He said he isn't allowed to work Carnival anymore because he had the temerity to arrest someone a few years back when he was a PC. Doesn't look good on the crime figures apparently :D
tarannau
31-08-2007, 16:38
How much crime do you think would be acceptable for a street festival of over 1 million people, many of whom are drawn from the most disadvantaged and crime ridden areas of London? 206 arrests doesn't seem particularly huge given that context, particularly when the number of officers has gone up so massively.
detective-boy
01-09-2007, 11:50
What's the efficacy of these points like anyway? Surely anyone carrying would see them in the distance and turn round and find alternate methods of transport. Are they worth the aggravation and ill feeling they cause?
I fully agree with the need to understand the perceptions of people both being searched and those seeing the operation.
As for efficiacy ... it's like almost all preventative police work ... it's almost impossible to know for sure. There is certainly a level of success in making arrests and seizing weapons - and even one or two less knives or guns in the pockets of people willing to use them is worth something having. There is certainly a degree of deterrence - anecdotal evidence from suspects and from other intelligence confirms that but the extent is unmeasurable. There is certainly scope for people to change to alternative means of getting weapons in - but even that, by putting the bad guys on the back foot is worth something (disruption is a recognised tactic in many areas of crime) and there are other tactics being used in other places and to deal with other methods. And they do provide a level of reassurance to those who fear those carrying weapons.
If the downside could be better managed I personally think they would be clearly worth the effort. As things stand, I think they probably still are as part of a tactical mix. But the public should continue to press for better deployment by the means of informed criticism (and NOT simply by "It's racist profiling" ... because that can usually be demonstrated to be false and, hence, the validity of the criticism is totally undermined).
detective-boy
01-09-2007, 11:56
DB did you actually read all of the post you selectively quoted?
Er, yes. But it seems you don't even read your own posts:
....And for your information Nobody on this thread has shouted racism.
Surely you can see my how my confusion may arise. As I now have not the faintest idea what you are saying I shall leave you to your meanderings.
detective-boy
01-09-2007, 12:00
Dear god...objective?...surely you mean subjective?
The entire point of the PACE Code of Practice was to replace subjective grounds with objective grounds. That is the law. It is the practice of competent officers. If there are officers who do not comply with that requirement they should, quite rightly, be taken to task over it. The best way of ensuring that is to complain every time it happens.
Have you written to the Commissioner complaining of what you saw?
Er, yes. But it seems you don't even read your own posts:
Surely you can see my how my confusion may arise. As I now have not the faintest idea what you are saying I shall leave you to your meanderings.
Dear god man ....I didn't shout racism, I commented on what seemed to be racial profiling. I can see a difference, can't you?
.....and yes leave me alone, there's a love.:)
detective-boy
01-09-2007, 12:03
Either Liddle's being particularly stupid, or he's trying to score a cheap controversy and mislead with the figures.
He is also somewhat economical with the truth when he implies that the arrest figures on their own tell him anything about the level of crime. What were the arrests for? Crime? Or minor disorder? Even if crime, crime affectinbg victims? Or "victimless" stuff like possession of drugs? And how many of them led to charges? Or were all "on suspicion of" something with the suspects being released without charge later?
If it was a crime-fest as he implies you can be assured the police would be making that plain with their commentary. Otherwise they would paint themselves into a corner next year, likely to receive less funding for the event as "last year's was so trouble-free" even though they know they need more.
detective-boy
01-09-2007, 12:07
I can see a difference, can't you?
No. Because there isn't one. Searching someone based solely on their race is, er, racist. Fact.
Am I the only person who thought that the police were making their presence felt more than they have done in the last couple of years. I saw them making a few arrests, and some of the crowd control measures seem to serve no purpose other than to make them feel more in control...
I used to go regularly back in the 80s. Haven't been for years.
No. Because there isn't one. Searching someone based solely on their race is, er, racist. Fact.
Fact huh? You yourself have argued that racial profiling is down to targeting certain groups that are known/expected to be offenders.....you have thrown statistics at me to justify why this happens and berated me because you thought I was shouting racism.... Big Yawn.
Anyway I'm bored already, but there is one question I dying to ask you Sherlock...who killed Wellington?:)
detective-boy
02-09-2007, 10:39
Fact huh? You yourself have argued that racial profiling is down to targeting certain groups that are known/expected to be offenders.....you have thrown statistics at me to justify why this happens and berated me because you thought I was shouting racism.... Big Yawn.
I have never justified racial profiling. It cannot be justified. Please do not misrepresent me.
Still no clue as to who killed Wellington?
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