Brussels

[winterinmoscow]

Hi folks

I've got 3 days in Brussels next month. I am a total geek and really interested in colonial history so I was wondering if anyone could tell me what might be good to see and do in Brussels. I'm also planning a walk through the
Congolese part of Brussels. Can speak ok French. Flying into charleroi.

Any tips? or any recommendations for cheap clean places to stay?

thanks so much

[CyberRose]

I've been to Brussels twice with uni and can safely say that unless there is a big group of you to go out drinking with, or you have access to the EU and NATO institutions, then there is sod all to do there!! Nah I'm sure there must be something to do, it's just I wasn't able to find it.

If you do think of something good to do there let me know as I'm gonna be working in the European Parliament for a week next month and would like to see/do something of interest otherwise I'm just sticking to what I know best and gettin pissed every night!

[Johnny Canuck2]

Hi folks

I've got 3 days in Brussels next month. I am a total geek and really interested in colonial history so I was wondering if anyone could tell me what might be good to see and do in Brussels. I'm also planning a walk through the
Congolese part of Brussels. Can speak ok French. Flying into charleroi.

Any tips? or any recommendations for cheap clean places to stay?

thanks so much

It's not colonial history, but the Museum of Modern Art is good. Paintings by Ensor, and especially, Magritte; although they've apparently opened a Magritte Museum since I was there, so the good paintings, like The Empire of Light, might be in that new museum.

[laptop]

I like Brussels. I'm going on Monday.

I like the art galleries - Modern Art and so forth: they're in what was going to be a massive Imperial Colonial Capital, but never got finished. Which is very Brussels.

The Film Museum is smallish but (to me) totally fascinating.

I'm not sure I've found the Congolese bit - the bit between the Sainte Marie cathedral (? - N end of Konigstraat/Rue Royale) and Gare du Nord is quite Hackneyish :)

[Johnny Canuck2]

In terms of colonial history, you can get an appreciation for how much the Belgians raped Africa, by the massive size of some of these palaces. It's a rinkydink little country [but a nice one!], but it has some of the largest palaces in the world. They didn't build those by selling lace.

I did manage to find an african area when I was there; just sort of stumbled upon it: all of a sudden, all these brown faces. I'll look at a map, and see if I can locate it.

If you want to see seedy + Congolese, the area of the old city just adjacent to that newish highrise complex, I think it's to the north, has all sorts of sleazy entertainments, with congolese touts outside. Also, the Marolle district is fairly working class poor.

[laptop]

Oh, and avoid what I can't help thinking of the chute des moules - the whole street devoted to fleecing hungry tourists near the Grand Place. There's lots of good food available elsewhere, though I can't remember the best ones 'cos I was driven there... apart from some decent restaurants on the Fischmarkt...

[lang rabbie]

I am a total geek and really interested in colonial history

The Africa Museum (http://www.africamuseum.be/) (the former Royal Museum for Central Africa) out at Tervuren is a must then. ;)

Despite a major recent revamp, the new displays are still raising hackles (http://www.howardwfrench.com/archives/2005/10/26/in_the_heart_of_darkness/) in some circles for a wider Belgian failure to come to terms with colonial history.

You have to get there on the 44 tram which doesn't start in the city centre. Take subway line 1B (towards Stockel) from the city and change at Montgomery metro station.

The african food in the cafeteria ain't bad, but I'm sure you can find something better in other parts of Brussels.

[eoin_k]

The Africa museum in Tevuren is a fine place to admire Belgian's noble colonial history. In all seriousness it is worth a visit although it still has a 19th century feel and illustrates the fact that Belgium is far from taking responsibility for their particularly brutal intervention in the Belgian Congo. You can get there by Tram from the town center.

If you are there over the weekend checkout the Sunday Markets at the Gare du Midi and the Abatoire Metro station which are fairly close together. The Gare du Midi has nicer products like Italian Deli products and French Cheeses. Look out for the Morrocan stall selling tea with mint and pancakes for a great hangover cure/breakfast. The Abatoire market is more working class and sells everything that isn't fancy as well as pretty good food. There are a few African Cafe's nearby that you might want to check out as well.

Areas i'd suggest hanging out in more generally would be the Grand Place, St Gilles, the Marolles and the more central bits of Ixelles (as far out as Avenue Louise). Apart from the Grands Place all these areas have a slightly Bohemian air (by Brussels' standards) and a nice ethnic mix (by Brussels standards). The Marolles has a particularly interesting vibe including a flea market once a week at Place de Jeu de Balles and an art centre/venue in a dissused train station. I saw a fantastic Basque ska/funk band play there and a fantastict twisted circus thingy around the corner so it is well worth checking out if you are looking for culture.

The Musee des Beaux Arts has a fantastic collection. 20th Century work includes some fantastic Surrealist paintings as well as work from the COBRA movement and a fair smatering of everything else. [avant-garde art geek]COBRA were an art movement that came between the surrealists and the situationists [/avant-garde art geek].

The older stuff includes lots of Brugels including the painting that inspired Audens poem named after the museum and crazy medieval shit. Check out the Bosh paintings - they're like a bad trip.

If you are into Modern architecture there are a group who organise tours of Art Deco and Art Noveau buildings called something like Arreau. In any case the Horta house in Ixelles is worth a looksee if you're at a loose end.

Finally Boozer and Cafes:

In the town centre the Falstaff is a bit of a must if wou want to sit on a terrace and pretend that your are in turn of the century Paris. La Bascuille is a Quirky little establishment down a tiled alley, where you can pretend to be a pirate in the Spanish Netherlands. It is one of the only places that sells lambic a spontaneously fermented beer that is refermented to make the more famous fruit beers. La Fleur en Papier Dorree is a really weird place that was decorated by Surrealists (they do great French Onion Soup).

In Ixelles I'd recommend L'Ultime Atome a cool little Braserie as well as the Morrocan restaurants on Avenue de la Coroune.

In Saint Gilles, I've got a soft spot for Brasserie de L'Union on the Parvis de Saint Gilles, an unpretentious little place where you can grab a soup for a couple of Euros during the day as well as flyers for local culture. Arround the corner from there, you should visit La Portuese D'eau, a beautiful Art Nouveau cafe.

If you fancy some green space there is a slice of the city from the Etangs D'Ixelles to the Forest des Soignes which include some really nice parks.

[eoin_k]

Now repeat after me Belgium is boring, I'm glad I'm in England ;) .

[Johnny Canuck2]

Oh, and avoid what I can't help thinking of the chute des moules - the whole street devoted to fleecing hungry tourists near the Grand Place. There's lots of good food available elsewhere, though I can't remember the best ones 'cos I was driven there... apart from some decent restaurants on the Fischmarkt...

I wouldn't eat there, but it's quite picturesque. Worth a walk through, especially if you're a first time visitor.

[davesgcr]

I reccomend doing a google search for the A to Z of Belgium .....i go there a couple of times a year and inevitably get lost ! You want to like it - but cannot.

Not much greenery around and pretty dirty away from the Grand Place.

[Aldebaran]

If I were you I would go to Antwerp. Everything you want at walking distance of each other. Starting next month - I think - you have also the weekly open air concerts of the Cathedral's beiaard on monday evenings, a very "social" experience tourists seem to like too.

From Antwerp it isn't far to Brussels (some 50km).
Midden Africa Museum in Tervuren... I heard the Africa collection underwent some face lift but when I was a child it looked "dusty" ;) My only interst there is for the Stanley Trust, wasn't in the Museum since a long time.

You can speak French in Antwerp if you want but I recommend English, both in Brussels and in Antwerp.

salaam.

[Aldebaran]

In all seriousness it is worth a visit although it still has a 19th century feel and illustrates the fact that Belgium is far from taking responsibility for their particularly brutal intervention in the Belgian Congo.

You are misinformed. Not so long ago the Belgian Minister of Foreign affairs apologized for this colonial history and if you go to the Congo today, most people speak with some strange affection about the Belgians (up to expressing the wish that the Beglians would "come back, which is no surprize seen the state of affairs in Congo to date).

By the way: How is keeping open a Museum dedicated to Africa related to "far from taking responsibility" ?

salaam.

[zoltan]

Tintin/herge

up around heysel/ King baduad (sp) there is some amazing deco architecture - worth trooping around for

also- Amsterdam is only a couple of hours away - got to be worth a night out!

[CyberRose]

Lol! What's there to do in Brussels?

Amsterdam!

[trashpony]

more suggestions here (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=178494&highlight=brussels):)

[eoin_k]

I reccomend doing a google search for the A to Z of Belgium .....i go there a couple of times a year and inevitably get lost ! You want to like it - but cannot.

Not much greenery around and pretty dirty away from the Grand Place.


If you want a map of Brussels buy a "De Rouck". It might help you find the parks;) .

[eoin_k]

You are misinformed. Not so long ago the Belgian Minister of Foreign affairs apologized for this colonial history and if you go to the Congo today, most people speak with some strange affection about the Belgians (up to expressing the wish that the Beglians would "come back, which is no surprize seen the state of affairs in Congo to date).

By the way: How is keeping open a Museum dedicated to Africa related to "far from taking responsibility" ?

salaam.

I can't say I was aware of the apology, although one statement made by a politician hardly refutes my point. I'm sure if I did a bit of homework I could come up with a more convincing argument for your point of view. My opinion was based on having lived there on two occasions for a total of four years. In that time I went on anti racist demonstrations and participated in solidarity projects with <<sans papiers>> immigrants as well as visiting the Africa Museum 3 or 4 times.

My point about the museum was that the fact that it didn't seem to have changed significantly since the colonial era, reflects the failure to take responsibility for the past. If you want to look at stuffed animals and stolen artifacts in dusty display cases then it is a good museum. But I can't remember ever seeing any exhibits describing how King Leopold II ran it as a private estate. I also can't recall Roger Casements 1904 report, that documents slave workers being punished by having their limbs amputated and other brutalities, being displayed.

[Aldebaran]

I can't say I was aware of the apology, although one statement made by a politician hardly refutes my point.

He was on an official visit in function, thus representing the Belgian State.

My opinion was based on having lived there on two occasions for a total of four years.

mmm... Depends on "where" you lived, but you said Belgium is "boring"? You are not very culturally minded, I suppose. ;)

In that time I went on anti racist demonstrations and participated in solidarity projects with <<sans papiers>> immigrants...

In that case you surely also heard about the so called "Snel Belg Wet/la loi instaurant une procédure accélérée de naturalisation" dated 1 March 2000, making it much easier to obtain the Belgian nationality (on which I largely disagree not in the least because it was typical blind short-term policy, attempting to contain a problem whihc had and has its fundament in other laws and regulations, some of wich came under review only afterwards. But that is an other discussion).

My point about the museum was that the fact that it didn't seem to have changed significantly since the colonial era, reflects the failure to take responsibility for the past. If you want to look at stuffed animals and stolen artifacts in dusty display cases then it is a good museum.

It changed significantly. My late grandmother, who was Belgian, had stories of her grandmother speaking of an "exhibition" in the gardens of the Museum whereby "African Village Life" was imitated, including villagers in their typical dress. It seems several became sick because of the rainy wether and If I recall well, ar least one died.
That is colonial history. I heard about it when I was a child and without asking for it and I'm not Belgian (I was only send back and forth since birth) while you seem to think Belgians have no clue or don't want to have a clue :)

As for "stolen objects displayed"... In my experience most museums all over the world contain stolen objects. None provide for specific education about where, by whom, under whihc circumstances they were obtained. In Belgium *everyone* knows how and under which circumstances the Africa Museum was build and filled.

But I can't remember ever seeing any exhibits describing how King Leopold II ran it as a private estate. I also can't recall Roger Casements 1904 report, that documents slave workers being punished by having their limbs amputated and other brutalities, being displayed.

That is part of Belgian history courses in secundary education schools, actually. If you want to read about it you can do so in an abundance of publications and some years ago Belgian State Television had a serial of programs on Belgium's history in the Congo. That wasn't exactly an admirational ode to Leopold or to the colonial regime.

Talking about colonialism and exploitation:
During my research on primary sources concerning the contacts of H.M Stanley with Arab tribes I came across the stunning, unbelievable figures of Africans killed during - and because of - his expeditions. Which didn't only serve the interests of the Belgian King.

salaam.

[laptop]

Anyway, Brussels. I'm here now, it's sunny, I've had a decent lunch, I've just met people from the Commission who are going to be interesting in future - and I get the train back tonight :(

[amatis]

If I were you I would go to Antwerp. Everything you want at walking distance of each other. Starting next month - I think - you have also the weekly open air concerts of the Cathedral's beiaard on monday evenings, a very "social" experience tourists seem to like too.

:) :) :)

You can speak French in Antwerp if you want but I recommend English, both in Brussels and in Antwerp.

When I'm in Brussels I ask first if the other speaks French or Flemish but you are right English is safer. You don't risk the cold look because you speak the wrong language. In Antwerp everyone speaks everything :)

People, leave Brussels for what it is. Nothing to see there.
Come to Antwerp! I'm your free guide!

[amatis]

He was on an official visit in function, thus representing the Belgian State.

It was not the first time Belgium apologised to the Congolese.

That is part of Belgian history courses in secundary education schools, actually. If you want to read about it you can do so in an abundance of publications and some years ago Belgian State Television had a serial of programs on Belgium's history in the Congo. That wasn't exactly an admirational ode to Leopold or to the colonial regime.

My children had to learn about it. When I was a child (I'm born in 1950 and was at Catholic schools) we had to sell things and collect all sorts of stuff for the poor little Congolese children. Every year a missionary priest in a long white robe came to our school on his fundraising tour. One year he was with a black priest and we all looked at him with great awe. He was "Congo coming alive" for us.
One of my father's brothers worked in the Congo, in the agricultural sector en married a Congolese woman. After the independence because of all the troubles and murdering they had to leave with their children. I remember that our whole family had to help them because they had nothing left but the cloths they were wearing. They never went back and my "black" nieces never experienced discrimination. On the contrary. My oldest brother's wive is Tunesian but because she is black people think she is Congolese and that means for them that she is a Belgian like they are. Their children never had troubles with racism either.
You see? There is still very much sympathy for Congo in Belgium. We know what went on there and we feel still a bound too.

Aldebaran, now I understand why you are so good informed about Belgium :)Did your grandmother live in Antwerp?