View Full Version : Will Brixton ever be gentrified?.....has it already?
....will it be the new Clapham, the new East dulwich? I only ask as from this forum I get the impression that it is getting that way, old places being shut, expensive new property popping up, coffee chains opening? etc etc
Yet some guy talking to me in the pub yesterday said that people have been saying the same for 20 years and that it is all peaks and troughs...it improves ( if gentrification is an improval ) then slides and it will never lose it's underbelly...whatever that may be:confused:
He said that 15 years ago East Dulwich and Brixton were both being touted as the place to buy, the place for regeneration etc and whilst one has been the other hasn't.... so I put it to you, is Brixton losing what makes it Brixton or will it continue with small but insignificant changes for ever and ever amen :)
Gentrified already IMO ;)
I'd say the long row of abandoned buildings on Coldharbour Lane (ex-Cooltan/Voice) and now the bankrupt block next door would suggest that the gentrification wave is encountering a few difficulties.
It's only a matter of time though, simply because of its location and transport links.
Dubversion
27-02-2007, 11:12
i think this...
people have been saying the same for 20 years and that it is all peaks and troughs...
is about the measure of it.
other than that, of course, London as a whole is becoming increasingly gentrified and untenable. Brixton itself - in relationship to that general trend - has passed its recent surge and settled back again
I'd say the long row of abandoned buildings on Coldharbour Lane (ex-Cooltan/Voice) and now the bankrupt block next door would suggest that the gentrification wave is encountering a few difficulties.
It's only a matter of time though, simply because of its location and transport links.
Yer...I'd be surprised if people told you to buy in Brixton 20 years ago tbh, although it would have made for a good investment @ least East Dulwich didn't have riots :D
Also East Dulwich is now for people who want 'the viallage' experience but cant afford to live or buy there...Brixton is a lot younger in it's crowd of yuppy incomers.
It's only a matter of time though, simply because of its location and transport links.
So you'd expect the same for elephant and castle? where do the people go then who get pushed out..further into the suburbs?
Yer...I'd be surprised if people told you to buy in Brixton 20 years ago tbh, although it would have made for a good investment @ least East Dulwich didn't have riots :D
Also East Dulwich is now for people who want 'the viallage' experience but cant afford to live or buy there...Brixton is a lot younger in it's crowd of yuppy incomers.
ED is for thusting couples of breeding age with a disposable income, toddlers in Bugaboos and Boden, cafe society where discussion revolves around School league tables and house prices
Crusties and goths not welcome.
So you'd expect the same for elephant and castle? where do the people go then who get pushed out..further into the suburbs?
Aye, or out of London alltogether.
[QUOTE=zenie] least East Dulwich didn't have riots :D
QUOTE]
YOu obviously werent in East Dulwich a month ago when the new wet fish shop opened.
utter carnage. I saw a woman drop her gloves in the bitter cold on opening day, trying to get the whole Sea bass. She only just made it to the Cafe Nero for a life saving Latte & a babychino for the toddler. It really was touch and go.
So you'd expect the same for elephant and castle? where do the people go then who get pushed out..further into the suburbs?It's what happened in New York. Once run-down Manhattan 'hoods like Alphabet City and the Lower East Side have been yuppified at a rate of knots with residents being pushed out across the river into Brookyln.
A lot of the squatters/artists/hipsters moved to Williamsburg, Brooklyn and made that a groovy place so the yups followed them in and sent rents soaring. Some were forced out to nearby Greenpoint, but the last time we were there a fucking huge yup block had just landed in the neighbourhood, so prices are set to rise there too.
A lot of artists have settled in Red Hook which has the benefit of being so inaccessible and miles out from Manhattan that it may prove to be yup-proof.
So you'd expect the same for elephant and castle? where do the people go then who get pushed out..further into the suburbs?
The Norwoods and Thornton Heath is where most of the ex-Brixton residents have moved too innit?
It's not an isolated problem. There's a whole 'return to the city' thing going on everywhere. More people are living alone/outside the family home. Congestion makes the suburbs less attractive.
Towards an Urban Renaissance (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Towards-Urban-Renaissance-DETR/dp/185112165X) was a report from 1999 from the Urban Task Force to Prescott about how to stop the flight to the suburbs, make cities pleasant places to live and to mix up wealthy and poor people's housing. Some of it has come to pass, and it's been infuential in planning policy ever since. Of course, half-witted implementation (stupidly low provision of social housing, no tax cuts for redevelopment of derelict land) means the problems haven't really gone away.
And yes, Brixton is impossible to immunise against this sort of thing. Zone 2, end of a tube line? Ring up the £££'s.
bluestreak
27-02-2007, 11:33
it's clearly, like almost everywhere in london, gentrified over the last decade. most of us londoners have seen our favourite corners change a lot over the last few years. just life innit.
Yer...I'd be surprised if people told you to buy in Brixton 20 years ago tbh, although it would have made for a good investment
Indeed, because that's the modern way of looking at it, which is very different from then. 25 years ago the 'investment' aspect of housing was a relatively minor concern, with 'a good place to live' and mortgage tax relief being much more important. London as a whole and Brixton in particular were seen as very undesireable and people queued to get out. By 20 years ago the Tory idea that 'housing = profit' was taking hold, though at the same time the GLC was giving away thousands of 'hard to let' places and London was still depopulating. Now, of course, it's impossible to imagine buying a home without dreaming of future riches but that wasn't always the case, it's one of the ways Thatcherism has embedded itself in the way we think today.
Also, of course, Brixton didn't exist 20 years ago- the only homes on the market were in North Streatham, East Clapham and the western fringes of Dulwich :D
And yes, Brixton is impossible to immunise against this sort of thing. Zone 2, end of a tube line? Ring up the £££'s.
wht would you want to immunise it, to preserve a bubble of mid-eighties deprivation, squalor and utter hopelessness is the midst of a thriving city?
normskii
27-02-2007, 11:49
Also, of course, Brixton didn't exist 20 years ago- the only homes on the market were in North Streatham, East Clapham and the western fringes of Dulwich :D
v funny.
While prices go up in Brixton, I don't think you could say that gentrification is really happening. I know this sounds silly, but there are too many social/ex-social rented homes there for the sort of people who moved to East Dulwich to find it attractive imo.
When myself and the mrs were looking for a home I took her to Brixton and she refused point blank to live there, saying she didn't feel safe.
Many people would prefer to live elsewhere and come to Brixton to have a drink I think.
wht would you want to immunise it, to preserve a bubble of mid-eighties deprivation, squalor and utter hopelessness is the midst of a thriving city?
Why would you want to get the yups in, pricing the locals out of the market and concentrating the ghettoisation of the poor?
That's the other extreme. Now let's have a 10-page fracas about which point inbetween is most desirable :)
poster342002
27-02-2007, 11:56
wht would you want to immunise it, to preserve a bubble of mid-eighties deprivation, squalor and utter hopelessness is the midst of a thriving city?
That deprivation isn't being cured by gentrification: it's being shoved elsewhere.
potential
27-02-2007, 11:59
with house prices so high, and the older generations moving out and cashing in on thier properties... only more affluent people will be able to live in brixton.
but there is alot of coucil estates in areas like loughborogh jtn and camberwell these areas wont ever/not in my life time be gentrified...
east dulwich is very expensive , ive got mates there and its nice but
if it was called west peckham not east dulwich, i dont think property prices would be so high saying that there are very very good schools there and
that would make a big reason for me to move there if i had young kids.
I wouldn't! Personally I resent the whole home = investment opportunity mindset we now have.
But the regeneration of London as a whole and Brixton in particular has brought improvements in quality of life as well as problems. The pressure on London at the moment is over-popularity and that's the measure of the change. In 25 years or so we've moved from queues to get out to queues to get in.
potential
27-02-2007, 12:17
it has brought alot of good regeneration in my manor loughbro jtn.
the green man for example looks lovely now and will provide much needed housing. whereas before it was a crime blot, you crossed the road to aviod it because of the muggers and crack dealers the frequented it.
bluestreak
27-02-2007, 12:25
That's the other extreme. Now let's have a 10-page fracas about which point inbetween is most desirable :)
*cracks knuckles*
*reaches for brickbat*
Brixton in the past has been very well to do. Look at the plethora of large Victorian properties that abound. Most have been converted into flats now but many used to be 7 bedroom houses complete with a basement for the servants. East Dulwich by contrast is more Victorian terraces and is full of smug gits. I used to live there I must admit but sold up a few years ago to a bunch of more money than sense types.
quimcunx
28-02-2007, 12:05
And Electric Avenue is so named because it was the first street to be lit by electricity, which suggests it was pretty well-to-do.
guinnessdrinker
28-02-2007, 12:43
So you'd expect the same for elephant and castle? where do the people go then who get pushed out..further into the suburbs?
it is about to happen with the so called 'regeneration'.
bluestreak
28-02-2007, 14:52
And Electric Avenue is so named because it was the first street to be lit by electricity, which suggests it was pretty well-to-do.
it was. brixton was one of the first affluent middle class suburbs of london.
SubZeroCat
28-02-2007, 14:59
it was. brixton was one of the first affluent middle class suburbs of london.
An old man told me that Brixton was where all the middle class people lived and Streatham was where all the servants lived.
I don't actually know how true that statement is but there we go.
bluestreak
28-02-2007, 15:09
like someone said earlier, a lot of houses in brixton are big enough for live-in servants, but i dare say there's a certain element of truth there.
poster342002
28-02-2007, 15:22
I think Brixton was a very modern, state-of-the-art new town of it's time - with it's purpose-built and weatherproof indoor markets, canopied streets and the like.
Absolutely. A model of Victorian town planning.
An old man told me that Brixton was where all the middle class people lived and Streatham was where all the servants lived.
I don't actually know how true that statement is but there we go.
The Victorian housing stock in Streatham is much the same as that in Brixton so I doubt its true. Both are classic railway suburbs.
SubZeroCat
28-02-2007, 15:32
The Victorian housing stock in Streatham is much the same as that in Brixton so I doubt its true. Both are classic railway suburbs.
Fairy muff :)
normskii
28-02-2007, 15:33
From what I can tell from a bit of net research Brixton's heyday was in the late 1800's after the opening of Vauxhall Bridge, and laying of the railway.
Given the small size of the city at this point Brixton was (I suppose) much more suburban, and perhaps more akin to how Kingston is now.
By the 1900's this was already on the turn however and it was becoming a working class district.
Streatham was largely rural until the railway was extended there and building started in earnest in the 1920's onwards. At this point Streatham was a place to be and considered an entertainment hotspot. Many stars of the day lived there due to good links to the West End.
The decline of both in the post war period I would put down to city creep, with affluent people wanting to stay in the suburbs. Current rising prices I suppose due to this again as people find it fashionable to live nearer to the city.
It's also the fairly modern phenomenon of young people spending 10 years after school not having children or settling down. It's a new demographic which is muscling its way into places like Brixton which are cheap and convenient.
but there is alot of coucil estates in areas like loughborogh jtn and camberwell these areas wont ever/not in my life time be gentrified...
Oi watch it! I've just gentrified my ex-council flat in Loughborough Junction. Well, I put the bog roll in a pink woolly ballerina outfit anyway. Now I've just got to get someone to evict the rats and move in next door, kill the crack-house extended family two doors down, calm down the two rabid addicts above me and resolve the burning issue of what I'm going to call this up and coming area (Flaxman Villas...White Hart Mews....Myatts Corner..).
guinnessdrinker
28-02-2007, 17:09
but there is alot of coucil estates in areas like loughborogh jtn and camberwell these areas wont ever/not in my life time be gentrified...
are you sure? they'll just "regenerate" the areas by demolishing them wholesale.
aurora green
28-02-2007, 17:13
.. Now let's have a 10-page fracas about which point inbetween is most desirable :)
...It has been ages since we last had one.:D
goldengraham
28-02-2007, 17:28
And yes, Brixton is impossible to immunise against this sort of thing. Zone 2, end of a tube line? Ring up the £££'s.
I think the tube has the opposite effect of what you are saying. It's exactly because East Dulwich is sheltered and difficult to reach on public transport that it has become trendy. Areas around major transport hubs rarely become gentrified regardless of their location - look at Finsbury Park, a similar case to Brixton if ever there was one.
christonabike
28-02-2007, 17:29
When did East Dulwich become trendy?
And I would say it's well served by public transport
:)
goldengraham
28-02-2007, 17:36
When did East Dulwich become trendy?
And I would say it's well served by public transport
:)
Perhaps I should have said gentrified.
But I think you know what I mean regarding the transport thing. It hasn't got an enormous transport hub on its doorstep.
I'm going to buy some doilies.
I'm just putting a skip outside.
The Victorian housing stock in Streatham is much the same as that in Brixton so I doubt its true. Both are classic railway suburbs.
I've a map of Brixton from the late 19th century, and Brixton had many many many HUUUUUGE houses - mansions with extensive grounds (like Belair house in Dulwich) - particularly to the south and east of the modern center, and running north up Brixton Road A lot of those have been replaced with terracing and/or modern estates over that last 100 years.
It used to be really posh. Reclaim the land!
(just in case... that last bit was a joke - humor - based on similar workers-type slogans in areas where the rich have displaced the poor - I am in no way advocating displacement of current populations or promoting gentrification. On the other hand neither am I suggesting in this disclaimer that gentrification is an undesirable thing. I don't want no trouble from no-one.)
I've a map of Brixton from the late 19th century, and Brixton had many many many HUUUUUGE houses - mansions with extensive grounds (like Belair house in Dulwich) - particularly to the south and east of the modern center, and running north up Brixton Road A lot of those have been replaced with terracing and/or modern estates over that last 100 years.
It used to be really posh. Reclaim the land!
(just in case... that last bit was a joke - humor - based on similar workers-type slogans in areas where the rich have displaced the poor - I am in no way advocating displacement of current populations or promoting gentrification. On the other hand neither am I suggesting in this disclaimer that gentrification is an undesirable thing. I don't want no trouble from no-one.)
Shut yer gob then! :p:)
OpalFruit
01-03-2007, 11:53
I bought a tiny flat in Brixton 20 years ago - only way I could afford somewhere to live, couldn't get a council or HA property, buying in Brixton was cheaper than a priavte rent.
The changes I have seen to my favourite street corners have been as a result of the monopoly of big chains on high streets, and nothing to do with gentrification. McDs was a furniture shop, KFC was a proper pub, Sainsbury's (maybe WHS) was Robill's with a magnificent, if delapidated, art deco facade, New Look to the Goose was the Bon Marche centre with independent craft stalls and industries. Yes, there has been development of private flats, but the high density and increasing provision of HA / council accommodation in the centre has continued to ensure that Brixton will never, IMO be bourgeois like ED. There are no sizeable estates close to the centre of ED. And the people who arrive now tend not to stay and become part of the community. Because there are fewer family sized houses in Brixton, and sadly, Brixton is still not as family friendly as it might be. Schools, drug dealing, increasing gun crime etc. What is good for families is often what is good for everyone who wants to live a constructive community orientated life.
Is it possible to have it both ways? It is essential for the local community that education, crime, access to employment, quaility of life get improved. If the long-term local community had that, would it matter if that also brought a proportion of wealthier people to the area?
OpalFruit
01-03-2007, 11:57
When did East Dulwich become trendy?
And I would say it's well served by public transport
:)
In about 1995. And then ferociously once talk of the tube extension line started. in 1993 it was way, way cheaper than Brixton, but people with children who wanted a slightly bigger garden and Goodrich School started to move there.
quimcunx
01-03-2007, 13:27
was Robill's with a magnificent, if delapidated, art deco facade, New Look to the Goose was the Bon Marche centre with independent craft stalls and industries.
I'd forgotten all about Robill's, I loved Robills. RIP :)
poster342002
01-03-2007, 13:30
There was also a store called 'sattelite' around there, too. And a branch of Burton's What became of those? :confused:
normskii
01-03-2007, 13:59
Yes, there has been development of private flats, but the high density and increasing provision of HA / council accommodation in the centre has continued to ensure that Brixton will never, IMO be bourgeois like ED. There are no sizeable estates close to the centre of ED. And the people who arrive now tend not to stay and become part of the community. Because there are fewer family sized houses in Brixton, and sadly, Brixton is still not as family friendly as it might be. Schools, drug dealing, increasing gun crime etc. What is good for families is often what is good for everyone who wants to live a constructive community orientated life.
Exactly.
...memory fades... didn't Burtons get torched? did it reappear after that?
I have to say that I'm noticing a lot more middle class youngsters moving in. They've come from the Home Counties, or from the nether zones of Clapham and Balham. They are all fresh-faced and excited, Dad has helped them with the deposit, they're renting rooms to friends; or they've gone into mortgage bondage with a friend or partner or sibling. This isn't speculative - they've told me this themselves.
Also many more Antipodeans buying round our way... and then bitching about the music late at night from the neigbours :rolleyes:
Lots of young professonal white people laughing VERY LOUDLY and showing off their social lives on a Saturday morning in Hive and Honest. Hey! Look at us! We live in Brixton!!! We're so very cool!
Overhearing more young white singles and couples sitting in food places ove a quick bite while they weigh up the pros and cons of this or that property, and what the local fitness centre is like. I kid you not, seen this several times over recent weeks.
Don't hate them - they have to live somewhere, why not here. But they're moving in cos it's "edgy", and then they don't stay here - they eat in Clapham and socialise in Hoxton and work in an office somewhere else. Brixton is just a stopping place on their ladder, a story they can tell in the future.
Meanwhile the artists can no longer afford the rent, and the older Jamaicans and West Indians are selling up, retiring back home, their kids don't want to stay here.
brixton is changing, I think. But Brixton always changes. It's part of the picture.
My least favourite change was when all those clubs opened and the drug tourists and idiot ravers all started coming in and draping their weary arses all over the place, drumming and dropping litter.
I'm a young white professional but I keep quiet about it :o
The post from Story above - I've seen similar views expressed many many times on my 5 years reading this board, and always wanted to chip in, but never have, but for some reason I'm going to know.
Some pre-clarification: I know that your post is a generalisation, and I'm sure you know so too; also, I live in Loughborough Junction, so maybe I'm not the point, but anyway.
I am by any classification a 'young white middle-class professional', and so's my wife (:) ); we moved here 5 years ago, not because it was edgy, or beacuse it was a staging post on the way to somewhere, or so we could tell the story later on in life, and certainly not because it is 'cool' (we're both Londoners born and bred so we know that lie), but because we wanted somewhere we could settle down and raise a family - ie a reasonable size house with a small garden, a park and school nearby, that wasn't miles and miles away from the center where we both work, that we could have a chance of affording (probably not true anymore sadly, but there you go).
I now know lots of other people in similar positions living in the area for the same reason (as a result of having the desired kids you meet a lot other parents) - the vast majority of whom are young, white, middle class and professional too.
There are a lot of people living here because we want to, not because it's cool, and that includes some of us 'gentrifiers' too I'm afraid.
I'm a young white professional but I keep quiet about it :o
Me too, but will my parents help me with a deposit? will they fuck :D
*waits for the lynch mobs*
;)
Urban75: There! there they are!!! Young white professionals!! Get them! They must all be middle class gentrifiers!!!
YWP's: Wtf?? :confused:
The lynch mobs have been priced out of the locality :(
I agree with prunus.
I bought my first flat in Brixton in 1995 (for 60 grand - those were the days), and now I live in a house in between Brixton and Herne Hill. I never lived here because it was "edgy" - and I don't know anyone else that does either. I socialise in mostly in Brixton and Herne Hill and sometimes in Clapham and East Dulwich because I have friends who live there.
Unfortunately, reasonably sized houses are now out of the reach of most people in this area. None of my friends can afford to buy them, so they're being forced further into the suburbs to raise their families. There are still quite a lot of council houses on our street, though, which is good, and a lot of people who've lived here since God was a boy. My neighbours have both spent twenty plus years in their houses, and it's what contributes to the community feeling of the area.
:)
happyshopper
01-03-2007, 15:43
Someone mentioned Bon Marche without, perhaps, realising its significance. Before it was a pub and New Look, even before it was a collection of craft stalls, it was actually a department store - part of the John Lewis chain. Can you imagine it now, a John Lewis store in Brixton?
Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of Morley's. But I don't think you can really regard Brixton as being gentrified until it gets a Waitrose. Until then what has happened in Brixton is no more than has happened to many other centres in inner London, whether they are on the way up or the way down.
I now know lots of other people in similar positions living in the area for the same reason (as a result of having the desired kids you meet a lot other parents) - the vast majority of whom are young, white, middle class and professional too.
I really hope you & your peers stay after the eldest gets to around 11, that by then there are decent secondary schools for allthe sprogs to go to, and the area is a good one for teenagers to thrive in. If you feel able to do that you'll have demonstrated that past patterns aren't going to be endlessly repeated, which would be a Good Thing. :cool:
Prunus - as you say, I was generalising. And I perhaps should have been more clear in saying that the people I'm referring to are clearly not families. They're singles, or boyfriend-and-girlfriend-with-flakey-stoner-pal-in-tow.
The people I'm thinking of are not settling here - they are using Brixton and environs as a staging post. They see property prices on the move, council properties up for grabs, new builds going up and they think it's a chance. Nothing wrong with that - everyone deserves a chance.
My gripe is that they don't seem to contribute anything - they don't shop here or hang out here, they don't know their neigbours, they're not bothered or even interested if the Two Woodcocks closes or a new 20MPH zone is being introduced (BTW did anyone see this plan yet? in and around Saltoun Rd, Kellet Rd Morval Rd etc...).
I live right in the middle of Brixton, close to St Matthew's Church. We too have council properties on our street, and long term residents, black and white. We bought in 1991, my Beloved was born and bred here, I've been in Brixton since the mid 80's. We've seen plenty of changes, and some of them are good.
I'm delighted to see families moving in, whatever their background and aspirations. I'm not against demographic change - not in the least. As I said, I think it's in the very nature of Brixton to change - it's a dynamic place.
But this bothers me: there are three properties at our end of the street that have been sold and sold and sold again over the last five years. The turnover in those properties is way swift, and the people who move in are of the type I describe. They're not interested in getting to know anyone, they don't look out for the Elders, they don't get involved if a window is broken... this is despite plenty of effort by long-time residents. The long-time residents in our street know each other, visit each other, look out for each other. We make a neigbourhood.
One of the things that makes Brixton special, and makes it a nice place to live despite the troubles, is that people look out for each other, make the effort to know each other. Our street is a crime hotspot, but because people know each other and look out for each other, (so far) there have been a lot more lucky escapes and close calls than there have been unhappy endings. If the new young things don't make the effort to become part of the community, then the arse will fall out of this fairly precarious balancing act that we all engage in.
But I don't think you can really regard Brixton as being gentrified until it gets a Waitrose.
I'd settle for a decent offie.
Brixton Gentrified?.........What because predominantly white middle class kids who earn good money in Media & Design jobs in the West End have moved in to the area...because it's sooo cool to slum it in the Ghetto? :eek:
Because it now has a large number of bars/clubs that young folks flock to? Whilst it's always had it's entertainment hotspot or two...the choice of places to go for a discerning bright young thing is pretty big now.
Honestly...Brixton has always been an OK area...some of the streets house FINE Victorian/Georgian Terraces/Villas/Mansions which were once homes for large well to do Families.
As controversial as it may sound...I think a lot of folks were simply too intimated & scared to think of Brixton as option post 80's riots. Who's to blame them?
I think the large influx of the Caribbean community and the prejudices of Ethnic folk in the 70's and 80's also played a big part in Folks not wanting to live in Brixton many years ago.
This is not to say I'm painting Brixton in a good light...it's always had it's fair share of issues...but so have plenty of other places in Zone 2 and these places continue to do so. Brixton has the worse rep of them all, que the 80's riots.
I was brought up in Stockwell in the 70's ...the place has barely changed....it's always had it's posh streets home to affluent/rich families, artists, actors, doctors & lawyers, aswell as it's dodgier than dodgy estates.
Stockwell is and will probably always be seen as Brixton's poorer neighbour...not because it's not as nice a place...because from a Family point of view...you have money and you'd bring your kids up in the Posh(s) part of Stockwell over the Posher Brixton Streets any day of the week.
Brixton is seen as more Gentrified because of the simple fact that a lot more younger folks are moving to Brixton simply because of the entertainment factor and it's obvious links into the City & West End.
Anyway...i'm a traitor I moved from Stockwell to Brixton Hill over 10 years ago because it was dirt cheap up here. ;)
OpalFruit
02-03-2007, 11:11
Someone mentioned Bon Marche without, perhaps, realising its significance. Before it was a pub and New Look, even before it was a collection of craft stalls, it was actually a department store - part of the John Lewis chain. Can you imagine it now, a John Lewis store in Brixton?
.
Yes - wasn't Bon Marche the very first 'department store' anywhere? I didn't think it was John Lewis, though, I thought that was Pratts in Streatham?
Is it true that the M&S was the first shop they opened? or perhaps that brixton was where the first barrow style stall that M&S had?
I don't think young media etc types come to Brixton primarily because it is 'edgy' (though to be sure some will) but because is is still considerably cheaper for the same kind of property, than anywhere else in Zone Two or with good tube access.
When I moved to Brixton (mid 80's) I could afford (just!) Brixton, Leytonstone or Tottenham. I liked Brixton for it's community, recognisable town centre, facilities (rec, Ritzy, Brockwell Park, shops, transport), and have stayed because I still like those things and still can't afford to live with the housing I have anywhere else comparable in London.
IMO what Brixton needs as much as anything atm is jobs, small businesses, work opportunities and employers. It is in the centre of the most residential borough in London, not enough work for those who ilve here, or those who live here travel out every day...and do all thier lunchtime and after-work shopping in the places where their jobs are. More jobs would play a role in genuine regeneration of the social kind, not gentrification of the property-prices kind.
But even the 'property prices' kind isn't reflected in the hight street. KFC and McD do not represent gentrification in my book.
And the gentrification in ED is exactly of the kind people on this board seem to crave...small independent shops rather than chains. But I grant that they are extremely expensive independent shops in many cases!
Yes - wasn't Bon Marche the very first 'department store' anywhere? I didn't think it was John Lewis, though, I thought that was Pratts in Streatham?
Is it true that the M&S was the first shop they opened? or perhaps that brixton was where the first barrow style stall that M&S had?You'll find a lot of the answers to your questions here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/index.html
Dominating this scene is a huge advert for the Bon Marché store, Britain's first purpose built department store. The store was the brainchild of a James Smith, who built the store in 1877 after winning £48,000 on the horses. In the foreground is Francis & Son, a large, traditional store.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/brixtonroad3.html
http://urban75.org/brixton/history/images/brixtonroad6.jpg
http://urban75.org/brixton/history/images/brixtonroad7.jpg
Minnie_the_Minx
02-03-2007, 11:54
There's a flat for sale in the converted warehouse opposite the Windmill flat - price tag - £1.5m :eek:
More yuppy flats are soon to be built there
Mr Retro
02-03-2007, 12:11
My gripe is that they don't seem to contribute anything - they don't shop here or hang out here, they don't know their neigbours, they're not bothered or even interested if the Two Woodcocks closes or a new 20MPH zone is being introduced (BTW did anyone see this plan yet? in and around Saltoun Rd, Kellet Rd Morval Rd etc...).
But this bothers me: there are three properties at our end of the street that have been sold and sold and sold again over the last five years. The turnover in those properties is way swift, and the people who move in are of the type I describe. They're not interested in getting to know anyone, they don't look out for the Elders, they don't get involved if a window is broken... this is despite plenty of effort by long-time residents. The long-time residents in our street know each other, visit each other, look out for each other. We make a neigbourhood.
Some poeple don't want to do all the above. They want to keep to themselves. Once they are not bothering anybody whats the problem?
Apart from the looking other for older people of course but thats just being human.
There's a flat for sale in the converted warehouse opposite the Windmill flat - price tag - £1.5m :eek:
More yuppy flats are soon to be built there
:eek: :eek: aren't they supposed to be live/work units?
bluestreak
02-03-2007, 12:30
There's a flat for sale in the converted warehouse opposite the Windmill flat - price tag - £1.5m :eek:
More yuppy flats are soon to be built there
london prices are mental :(
Minnie_the_Minx
02-03-2007, 12:30
I'd forgotten all about Robill's, I loved Robills. RIP :)
I never forget about Robill's when I'm after some cheap tupperware, roasting tins ec. :(
happyshopper
02-03-2007, 21:22
Yes - wasn't Bon Marche the very first 'department store' anywhere? I didn't think it was John Lewis, though, I thought that was Pratts in Streatham?
Pratt's was part of the John Lewis Chain as well - it just lasted a bit longer.
London prices are mental
Although 1.5million for that Live/Work Unit is beyond the realms of normality IIRC from looking at in on Rightmove....the space is about 4,000SQ Ft...which is like the size of a LARGE 6 Bedroom Victorian House.
I'm not saying 1.5million is cheap...but your paying for a huge amount of Space.
quimcunx
02-03-2007, 23:25
I never forget about Robill's when I'm after some cheap tupperware, roasting tins ec. :(
Well it took me a few years to forget it. It was gone when I bought my flat, after living here 6 years. I thought about it a lot then, and mourned it's passing. But once I'd 'set up house' I forgot about my grief, until the wound was cruelly reopened by this thread. It has to be said, about a year ago I was looking for cheap roasting tins (you know ones made of tin) but could only find expensive teflon coated jobs. Most of them were over a tenner for one tin. Argos did in the end. Robills would have had them. The shop beside Superdrug is no use, though I've gone in a couple of times in vain hope.
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