Is the CPZ killing Brixton Hill?

[supercity]

I noticed this morning that the florist's shop and the dry cleaners on the Hill have both got To Let signs in the windows, along with the two former restaurants.

I wonder if the Controlled Parking Zone is partly responsible? I also wonder why it's not possible to allow one hour of free parking from 10am on side-streets off the Hill so people could pop in and get shopping.

I accept the need for a CPZ, since when the congestion charge came in all the roads round here filled up with cars belonging to people who were then taking the tube into work. But after 10am, and with a one-hour limit, these people still wouldn't be able to use the roads to park. And given the efficiency of Capita's army of traffic nazis, it would be easily enforceable.

Or do we just sit back until the whole row of shops is either abandoned or selling fried chicken?

What do people think?

[Gixxer1000]

So basically your premise is that the majority of customers for the florists/dry cleaners were non resident car drivers:confused:

The whole thing stinks though, CPZs' shouldnt be a stealth tax opportunity for Lambeth council.

[supercity]

Not at all. I don't imagine that those shops ever made millionaires out of their owners, so for that reason any small loss of trade might make the difference between survival and failure. And there may well have been local-ish customers who'd once pop in to those shops on their way somewhere else rather than go into Brixton centre. Those people now can't do that.

[lang rabbie]

I suspect the inflexible way in which Lambeth has introduced new CPZs over the years - insisting that they operate all day rather than just operating for one hour to deter commuter parking - has been a factor in making life more difficult for local shops who relied on car-borne trade.

However, I get the impression that independent florists, apart from those at the very posh end of the market, are having a tough time across the country. It looks as though the florists at both Balham and Streatham Hill stations have closed recently. Something tells me that this may not have much to do with SW2 consumers suddenly developing ethical concerns about their cut flower purchasing. (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:nhzhqoWCxn0J:observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,1773842,00.html+%22cut+flowers%22+market+supermarket&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk)

A combination of cheap bouquets in the supermarkets and the dedicated flower delovery websites provided by Next, Waitrose, M&S must have taken away a lot of trade. I can't find a link, but I think I also read that there is also less choice of good value stock available to them at Covent Garden

[memespring]

The freekin huge Sainsbury's on the hill and Tesco on the south circular cant exactly help.

[Gixxer1000]

Not at all. I don't imagine that those shops ever made millionaires out of their owners, so for that reason any small loss of trade might make the difference between survival and failure. And there may well have been local-ish customers who'd once pop in to those shops on their way somewhere else rather than go into Brixton centre. Those people now can't do that.
Fairy nuff, I would have thought that the business most affected would be Hearn Bros garage as they have limited parking space on their premises.
I suspect the closures have more to do with rent rises or other influences.

[newbie]

I suspect the inflexible way in which Lambeth has introduced new CPZs over the years - insisting that they operate all day rather than just operating for one hour to deter commuter parking - has been a factor in making life more difficult for local shops who relied on car-borne trade.

not convinced this is wholly down to Lambeth. The original consultation for the CPZ had an option for 2 hours per day only. SFAIK only Endymion (and Beechdale?) Road voted for that (& got it) and the residents elsewhere wanted restrictions all day. Apart from 2 hours in the morning Endymion is free during the day, and is used by visitors to the prison.

[newbie]

The freekin huge Sainsbury's on the hill and Tesco on the south circular cant exactly help.
Sorry, not convinced about that either :) The flower shop at any rate survived the competition when the Sainsburys used to be a Co-op, and when the New Park Road shops were worth visiting.

It's a shame he's gone, he was a nice bloke. My guess is the CPZ was contributory to losing passing trade, as was the Congestion Charge, which has reduced the amount of traffic, and the red route.

I'm afraid Shielas won't be there long, either :(

[Gixxer1000]

not convinced this is wholly down to Lambeth. The original consultation for the CPZ had an option for 2 hours per day only. SFAIK only Endymion (and Beechdale?) Road voted for that (& got it) and the residents elsewhere wanted restrictions all day. Apart from 2 hours in the morning Endymion is free during the day, and is used by visitors to the prison.

Hactually
"There was very little consensus on the times of operation. The most common start time was 10 a.m. and most common finish time was 6 p.m. The neighbouring Brixton ‘E’ zone is 8:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. and the Brixton ‘B’ zone is 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. It is therefore recommended that the ‘Q’ zone be 8:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday to Friday, and that Resident only bays in Fairmount Road are also the same time on Sunday."

(From report advising the Area Committee of the responses to the Council’s public consultation in March 2005 on detailed proposals for the Brixton Hill East ‘Q’ Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) for consideration.)

[newbie]

Regarding the duration of operation of the CPZ there was a great variation in responses. Generally speaking residents living closer to Brixton wanted the CPZ to operate for longer than residents living further away letter to residents 25 May 05. It does also make the recommendation that the whole zone should run 8.30 to 6.00, but what was actually implemented included only a couple of hours a day at the southern end of the zone.

Had the residents closer in to the town center also voted for shorter restrictions perhaps the recommendations, and final zone, would have been different. Perhaps not.

[Gixxer1000]

[i] It does also make the recommendation that the whole zone should run 8.30 to 6.00, but what was actually implemented included only a couple of hours a day at the southern end of the zone.

Had the residents closer in to the town center also voted for shorter restrictions perhaps the recommendations, and final zone, would have been different. Perhaps not.

Yeah right just being cynical of cause Lambeth didnt want the revenue generating benefits of all day CPZ. :rolleyes:

[newbie]

Hard to know isn't it? They could equally have been attacked if they'd ignored the voted preferences of those living closest to the tube, and only put restrictions on a couple of hours a day.

[Gixxer1000]

Hard to know isn't it? .

Erhh not realy, just ask the right questions in the survey;) Or reappraise once up and running.

Additionally I think you will also find that people are objecting to having to pay £100's on visitors permits over a year for tradesmen/friends/families/ health visitors etc.

[newbie]

of course they're complaining, that's what people do :)

but they were complaining before that they couldn't park at all. Now there are acres of empty space the nature of the objection has shifted.


minor point: both the residents permit and the daily visitors permit cost the same whether the restriction is all day or only a couple of hours. Although Lambeth may gain from additional fines, they also have to patrol all day rather than for just a couple of hours... so the revenue generated by an all day zone isn't that much greater than a 2 hour zone. Or am I missing something?

I'd have thought the way to raise revenue would be to increase the number of pay & display meters. There is, after all, no shortage of unused parking space for them.

e2a well, no shortage in eg Josephine, anyway.

[Gixxer1000]

I'd have thought the way to raise revenue would be to increase the number of pay & display meters. There is, after all, no shortage of unused parking space for them.
Its the meters that make the all day option so lucrative, plus you are obliged to use the permits at £3.50 a shot.

[Gixxer1000]

of course they're complaining, that's what people do :)

but they were complaining before that they couldn't park at all. Now there are acres of empty space the nature of the objection has shifted.
.
Complaining?-You wait until they up the price of the permits:D

[newbie]

Its the meters that make the all day option so lucrative, plus you are obliged to use the permits at £3.50 a shot.

the permits are the same whatever the length of the restriction. Maybe those who voted for all day restrictions should have thought it through better. I don't know if an overwhelming vote for a 2 hour zone would have been successful but it does appear that that's not what the residents wanted.

[Gixxer1000]

the permits are the same whatever the length of the restriction. Maybe those who voted for all day restrictions should have thought it through better. I don't know if an overwhelming vote for a 2 hour zone would have been successful but it does appear that that's not what the residents wanted.
Are you thick or something?:D We werent given the option to vote for a two hour zone. Yes visitors permits are the same cost however long you stay, but if there is free parking during the day you wont use one for any visitor in that time interval (well maybe you would:D )

[newbie]

you weren't?? why not, we were. there were two questions
1 do you want a cpz
2 if there is one what hours should it be? that one was multiple choice i think.

There's a two hour restriction and a two hour meter... in order to be completely sure of not getting a ticket the visitor would have to park on the meter at exactly 10.00 and move their car back into the residents bit at exactly 12.00. That's a wee bit risky to save a quid or so.


I'm not sure if your ire is directed towards me, Lambeth council or CPZs in general. If it's me, then please accept my apologies, brushing up against you was entirely inadvertent and no disrespect was meant.

[Gixxer1000]

brushing up against you was entirely inadvertent and no disrespect was meant.

Stalker:eek: :D ;)

Cleverly done btw.

[Gixxer1000]

There's a two hour restriction and a two hour meter... in order to be completely sure of not getting a ticket the visitor would have to park on the meter at exactly 10.00 and move their car back into the residents bit at exactly 12.00. That's a wee bit risky to save a quid or so.
.
Or maybe just visit in the hours when there are no restrictions:confused:

[newbie]

well yes, clearly, but people staying overnight and through the next day are affected by the two hour restriction. Their choice is move their car out of the zone (to somewhere free), pay on a meter or use a visitors ticket. I've explained why a visitors ticket is sometimes preferable to a meter.

[newbie]

Are you sure you weren't given a choice about times??