Lambeth Parks pledge!!!

[gaijingirl]

Right, if, like me, you feel strongly about the fact that Lambeth council has effectively made the holding of small free/charitable events in our parks impossible by requiring organisers to pay for the erection of fences around the sites - please sign up to my pledge!

pledgebank.com (http://www.pledgebank.com/LambethParks)

"I will send my newly elected councillor an email using www.writetothem.com asking that they review their current policy regarding the fencing off of events in Lambeth Parks but only if 15 other local people will too."

When I originally wrote the pledge I stated that I wanted 25 other local people to sign up too - an automated reply came saying that getting any more than 15 people would be difficult - so I changed it. But really I would like at least 25 people to sign up. Writing to an MP by www.writetothem.com is incredibly easy and who knows, it might just make a difference.

[s.norbury]

The can't stop the pointless picnic, it has no location:)

[ianw]

Pledged.
:)

[dervish]

Pledged

:)

[Sweetpea]

Pledged
:)

[Oula]

Done

[Crispy]

yup

[nipsla]

And me :)

[PieEye]

moi

[gaijingirl]

Thanks all... we're still 7 short of meeting the limit.... so anyone else?? :)

[RushcroftRoader]

done
:)

[linerider]

i'm in

[Funky_ken]

done :)

[gaijingirl]

Brilliant... we only need 3 more to make the pledge. Thanks everyone! Let's keep our new councillors busy eh!

Thanks to Memespring for the idea and help with this! :)

[William of Walworth]

Brilliant... we only need 3 more to make the pledge. Thanks everyone! Let's keep our new councillors busy eh!

Thanks to Memespring for the idea and help with this! :)

Gaijin -- may now be worth doing a bit of questioning/research on how the changed administration at Lambeth Town Hall might alter things. There's only one Green Councillor (see other thread) and Shane Collins missed out on joining her by only 16 votes, but Labour are in full control again now and Cllr. Clare Whelan (Conservative, evil Parks boss) while relected for her ward, is OUT of power now and has no role.

I doubt there's any chance of getting the Urban Green Festival reinstated for 17/18 June, it's too soon I should think, but maybe later in the summer?? Who knows!!

[gaijingirl]

Gaijin -- may now be worth doing a bit of questioning/research on how the changed administration at Lambeth Town Hall might alter things. There's only one Green Councillor (see other thread) and Shane Collins missed out on joining her by only 16 votes, but Labour are in full control again now and Cllr. Clare Whelan (Conservative, evil Parks boss) while relected for her ward, is OUT of power now and has no role.

I doubt there's any chance of getting the Urban Green Festival reinstated for 17/18 June, it's too soon I should think, but maybe later in the summer?? Who knows!!

Well 18 people have signed up already so the pledge (which was for 15 people has already been met) - the more people who send these emails to our new councillors the better I reckon! The deadline is May 12th - so hopefully we'll get more people signing up before then. I guess if they wanted to do something which would make them popular - something which also probably wouldn't involve a whole deal of work - reworking their park licencing policy would be one way of doing it! :) Getting the Green Fair reinstated would be difficult I imagine and I expect the organisers are looking to hold it elsewhere anyway - but maybe things could change for next year?? :)

[William of Walworth]

Will add my pledge very soon! :o :p

Does it matter that I'm not a Lambeth resident?

[gaijingirl]

Will add my pledge very soon! :o :p

Does it matter that I'm not a Lambeth resident?

Well several other non-Lambeth residents have already signed. I can't see that it would be a bad thing! The more the merrier I say - you use the parks too right?

[Blagsta]

done

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'm trying to sign it but the confirmation email isn't turning up in my inbox so I can't.:confused:

But I'll do it anyway.:)

[citydreams]

I'm trying to sign it but the confirmation email isn't turning up in my inbox so I can't.:confused:

But I'll do it anyway.:)


done. Cheers Gaijin

[Brixton Hatter]

done :)

that's 25 now!

we are fucking brilliant

time to send some emails...who's is the new parks person then, have they decided that yet? Maybe we should copy all our emails to that person for extra effect?

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Bumped to complement good emailing work.:)

[twisted]

i tried but they never sent me an email back which i was supposed to click on or something...bloody internet blah blah blah

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

That doesn't have to stop you emailing your councillor though.:)

[gaijingirl]

Wotcha!

I sent the email below out to everyone yesterday - if anyone has contact details for appropriate people to cc in that'd be great! ...

"Hurrah!

Hello, our pledge was successful - really successful! - 25 people signed up to the following pledge:

'I, gaijingirl, will send my newly elected councillor an email
using www.writetothem.com asking that they review their current
policy regarding the fencing off of events in Lambeth Parks but
only if 15 other local people will too.'

Unfortunately it seems that www.writetothem.com have not yet
been able to add the details of new councillors to their
website. Apparently it will be a few weeks before this happens.

So, let's not wait! Lambeth Residents, details of your new councillors can be found here:


http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/ElectedRepresentatives/Councillors.htm

Please write to the councillor for your ward.

For those from outside of Lambeth, it may be more appropriate
to write to Valerie Shawcross who is the Lambeth and Southwark
London Assembly Member covering issues such as the Mayor's
budget, culture, sport and tourism, health, planning and transport.

I would be very interested to hear of any responses you receive.

Let's hope we get somewhere. Thanks everyone for giving it a go!"

[gaijingirl]

I had two emails today...

- The first from the guy who runs www.writetothem.com to say that new councillors' details are on the site now - so people can use that service.

-The second, quite encouraging from Cllr Toren Smith, in which he promises to take the matter up with his colleagues. I was impressed with him last year when he ran and won a campaign to save the Tulse Hill Estate nature garden, so I'm hoping that he will have some success with this.

Anyone who has not already written to their local councillor - this would really be a good time to do so. Maybe I'm naive, but I really do think that things can change if we try hard enough. :)

[Brixton Hatter]

The new person responsible for Parks in Lambeth is Lib Peck, who is also Labour councillor for Thornton ward. I have copied my email to my councillors to her as well.

lpeck@lambeth.gov.uk

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Emails duly sent.:)

[gaijingirl]

The new person responsible for Parks in Lambeth is Lib Peck, who is also Labour councillor for Thornton ward. I have copied my email to my councillors to her as well.

lpeck@lambeth.gov.uk


Thanks!

[linerider]

i'll send mine over the weekend as my email is playing up.

[gaijingirl]

Right well Toren Smith replied to me - sending me a copy of the reply he received:

Dear Cllr Smith,

The decision to fence events over 2000 when they are held on open spaces has
been implemented on the recommendation of Public Protection and the Police and
is also based on the revised Event Strategy which states that the environmental
protection of the Green Open Space and the protection of event attendees is of
paramount importance. The Event Service has experienced a number of situations
over the years where event organisers have underestimated both on the licence
application and with their event structure attendance figures. This in turn has
caused a number of public safety concerns. By fencing an event, organisers have
to click attendees in and out so they are aware at any one time how many members
of the public are within their event, and also ensure they are within their
Licences and Park Hire Agreement. The events that are mentioned in the residents
email where actually looking to attract more than 2000 attendees. To give an
example, at a past unfenced free event on Clapham Common the organisers informed
the Events Service that they expected 4,000 - 6,000 people to attend. Over the
event 100,000 people attended and caused serious damage to the event site. Such
situations can simply not take place again.

Both the events mentioned in the email (I mentioned the Cuban fair and the Fair4Life and this year's South London Green Fair in my email - gg) have a good relationship with the Events
Service and I have emails from both of them stating that though they where
disappointed with the decision they understood why it had to be made.

As I stated at the start of my email we have support both from the Police and
Public Protection on this policy, we also offer events such as those mentioned
the opportunity to source the fencing through the Councils contractors to try
and lower the cost. We also offer these events substantial discounts on our
normal hire rate.

The events service wishes to encourage such events to take place, however they
must do so within the agreed Licence and Parks Hire Agreement.

Kind regards,

Emma L Dagnes
Lead Officer Events

Parks and Green Open Spaces
Environment & Culture Directorate
London Borough of Lambeth
phone: 020 7926 0759
mobile: 07940 720125
fax: 020-7926 6201
e-mail: eldagnes@lambeth.gov.uk
website: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk

Blue Star House
234-244 Stockwell Road
London SW9 9SP

The point is that I would like them to review this situation and find some way round that will not penalise free/community/charitable events. Can anyone suggest away this can be done without fencing? Or, if fencing is used, that it does not end up costing such organisers punative amounts of money?

gg

[PieEye]

I've emailed Jeremy Clyne for Streatham Hill and Lib Peck - I'll let you know what they say :)

[PieEye]

100,000 people at an event on Clapham Common???

I'd like to know what that event was! It sounds like a massaged figure to me...

[William of Walworth]

100,000 people at an event on Clapham Common???

I'd like to know what that event was! It sounds like a massaged figure to me...

I share your extreme doubts, that sounds like complete bollocks.

[cllr]

I share your extreme doubts, that sounds like complete bollocks.

Do you remember a few years ago Channel 4 promoted a Paul Oakenfold event on Clapham Common. It was said to the council that it was a small event for publicity purposes but then it was advertised on billboards all around the place.

The result was massive attendance that was not prepared for - lack of toilets, lack of cleanup, lack of refreshment. There was a sea of glass and litter after the event.

That event, plus the Purple Radio event in Brockwell Park really did damage to the cause of events in parks in Lambeth.

[gaijingirl]

Do you remember a few years ago Channel 4 promoted a Paul Oakenfold event on Clapham Common. It was said to the council that it was a small event for publicity purposes but then it was advertised on billboards all around the place.

The result was massive attendance that was not prepared for - lack of toilets, lack of cleanup, lack of refreshment. There was a sea of glass and litter after the event.

That event, plus the Purple Radio event in Brockwell Park really did damage to the cause of events in parks in Lambeth.

:mad:

Typical! How annoying! But it still seems hugely unfair that events such as the South London Green Fair be penalised. It seems like quite a knee-jerk reaction. Obviously it's not going to get the same attendance as a Channel 4 promoted, billboard touted event with a big name DJ!! Surely there are better ways of preventing such situations re-occuring?

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Hmmm, glancing at that one thing that strikes me is that their argument about fences enabling them to keep a check on numbers isn't true. At the Fair 4 Life last year the fence was such that you could just lift up one of the panels and walk through the gap, if you couldn't be bothered to walk to the free entrance. To actually be effective you'd need a much bigger fence and a heavier security presence.

Whether that helps or hinders though I'm not sure...

[PieEye]

Ironic that it's two big commercial events that fucked things up. I didn't know that Oakenfold was that popular :D

Monkeygrinders - that's the nature of that type of fencing but pointing it out will only lead to the council insisting on more security probably. A bad thing I think!

It seems like case by case approach could be a reasonable way to do things. Going on type of event, previous attendance numbers, growth trends, amount of promotion and then decide if they deem an enclosure necessary? Still room for fuck ups there I suppose but at least that way the smaller events getting started would get some grace before having to shell out?

Is the Country Show going to be fenced then???

[Mr Retro]

When you do one of those pledge thingies are the people who pledged copied on the e-mail you subsequently send?

[PieEye]

Don't think so - I haven't received any of the ones sent.

[tarannau]

Well, that's the point isn't it. Short of a Glastonbury-style construction and/or heavy perimeter security, it's virtually impossible to stop determined fencejumpers.

Standard "Heras' fencing is easily enough moved - it's just placed in concrete blocks at the bottom, with clips holding the various sections together. The Fair 4 Life fence wasn't that bad (I helped put it up) but there were admittedly a few unclipped gates we left open, mainly for security access.

So it's an expensive, useless folly of a requirement really. Even if a temporary fence was in place in Clapham Common for that Oakenfold gig it would never have held - someone would have breached the perimeter and people would have poured in, causing a greater risk to safety. And it's not just Heras fencing either - I've seen inventive solutions for getting round pretty much anything that's not 30ft high and patrolled by vicious dogs.

All they've done is penalise legitimate charities and concerns for the cynical actions of C4's promotional team in the past. And it's utterly pointless and costly for all concerned.

[Mr Retro]

Don't think so - I haven't received any of the ones sent.

So whats the point in them then for a situation like this?

[PieEye]

So whats the point in them then for a situation like this?

The emails are sent to the councillor for your area of Lambeth and in the case of Lib Peck, the person responsible for parks in Lambeth. They can then take your concern up with their colleagues and get back to you with the response.

There's a link a few posts up that helps you find out who your councillor is.

What would be the point in me receiving anyone else's complaint about the park policy?

[arty]

Well, that's the point isn't it. Short of a Glastonbury-style construction and/or heavy perimeter security, it's virtually impossible to stop determined fencejumpers.

.

the fencejumpers tend not to be too determined at free events tho'

[OpalFruit]

afaik, it's Tessa Jowell, the DCMS and the new licensing laws which came into effect last November that are behind all this. Enormous burocracy has been introduced for any event with a public performance - Lambeth may have no discretion over the matter.
:mad: m:(

[Mr Retro]

The emails are sent to the councillor for your area of Lambeth and in the case of Lib Peck, the person responsible for parks in Lambeth. They can then take your concern up with their colleagues and get back to you with the response.

There's a link a few posts up that helps you find out who your councillor is.

What would be the point in me receiving anyone else's complaint about the park policy?

I don't mean are people cc'd. I mean when pledgebank get enough pledges, and gaijingirl sends a mail, are the signatures of the people who pleged included in the mail, so that the Councilor knows 15 other people care about the issue too?

[PieEye]

the fencejumpers tend not to be too determined at free events tho'

That's true but I also think that when an event is free and has this bizarre and illogical boundary fence no one's going to respect it anyway and just lift it up and wander in wondering what the hell it's for. Not too much determination required with those fences :D

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

the fencejumpers tend not to be too determined at free events tho'

They would be in the event that the area was too full and no one else was being allowed in, which is the situation the council say the fence is for.

[PieEye]

I don't mean are people cc'd. I mean when pledgebank get enough pledges, and gaijingirl sends a mail, are the signatures of the people who pleged included in the mail, so that the Councilor knows 15 other people care about the issue too?

No - they stand alone which is why we're meant to write our own emails too.

Although you have a point - perhaps including a link to the pledge would highlight the fact they aren't isolated complaints?

[Mr Retro]

Although you have a point - perhaps including a link to the pledge would highlight the fact they aren't isolated complaints?

I think so. Otherwise the pledge is useless and a waste of time in a situation like this. It's easier just to post the link and ask people to write.

[PieEye]

To be honest I'm a bit confused as to what the pledges are useful for but I'm pissed off about the park events getting shafted so I'm happy to complain about that :o

Gaijingirl - do you have a link direct to the relevant pledge page? I'm getting error messages at the moment.

[gaijingirl]

PieEye - Here is a link for the pledge..

http://www.pledgebank.com/LambethParks

Mr Retro.. all the information about the situation can be read on that site by all sorts of people (not just U75 members). Through the site you can email other people, create posters and flyers, it can be forwarded and distributed by others etc etc.. obviously, it can also be referred to in any subsequent emails to councillors etc. I think it also gives very visual reassurance to anyone who agrees with the issue being discussed. It's good to look at a long list of names and know that those people, people from your community (and by this I mean in a wider context that the U75 community) agree with you on something you feel strongly about.

However, you do not need to look at it if you dofeel it is a waste of time - please feel free to just go ahead and write to your local councillor about the Lambeth Parks situation through www.writetothem.com. I hope that your presence on this thread isn't merely to criticise others' methods of trying to do something worthwhile - but because you are concerned about the issue being addressed.

[William of Walworth]

Well, that's the point isn't it. Short of a Glastonbury-style construction and/or heavy perimeter security, it's virtually impossible to stop determined fencejumpers.

Standard "Heras' fencing is easily enough moved - it's just placed in concrete blocks at the bottom, with clips holding the various sections together. The Fair 4 Life fence wasn't that bad (I helped put it up) but there were admittedly a few unclipped gates we left open, mainly for security access.

So it's an expensive, useless folly of a requirement really. Even if a temporary fence was in place in Clapham Common for that Oakenfold gig it would never have held - someone would have breached the perimeter and people would have poured in, causing a greater risk to safety. And it's not just Heras fencing either - I've seen inventive solutions for getting round pretty much anything that's not 30ft high and patrolled by vicious dogs.

All they've done is penalise legitimate charities and concerns for the cynical actions of C4's promotional team in the past. And it's utterly pointless and costly for all concerned.

I wonder if 'cllr' has got any response to this?

Does he think the Oakenfold fiasco (which I apologise to him for having forgotten/never known about :o ) has any relevance whatsoever to the requirements being imposed on the Urban Green Fair and other free/community events?

Bonkers.

[Mr Retro]

PieEye - Here is a link for the pledge..

http://www.pledgebank.com/LambethParks

Mr Retro.. all the information about the situation can be read on that site by all sorts of people (not just U75 members). Through the site you can email other people, create posters and flyers, it can be forwarded and distributed by others etc etc.. obviously, it can also be referred to in any subsequent emails to councillors etc. I think it also gives very visual reassurance to anyone who agrees with the issue being discussed. It's good to look at a long list of names and know that those people, people from your community (and by this I mean in a wider context that the U75 community) agree with you on something you feel strongly about.



Thanks - I was just wondering about the reasons for it and you have made it totally clear!

[cllr]

I wonder if 'cllr' has got any response to this?

Does he think the Oakenfold fiasco (which I apologise to him for having forgotten/never known about :o ) has any relevance whatsoever to the requirements being imposed on the Urban Green Fair and other free/community events?

Bonkers.

I don't think you should expect me to try and explain or defend Tessa Jowell. All I'll say is that that deliberate under-estimating of event numbers, whether on the scale of Oakenfold or smaller events, causes a range of problems, around toilets, refreshements and clear-up.

I don't support mandatory fencing of small-scale events. But demarcation of larger events so parks/commons are still available for people who aren't going to festivals/concerts is probably a good thing.

Personally I don't follow the economics of a free fesitval in today's risk-averse world. Maybe we should just put more effort into getting the best out of the country show.

[rennie]

why only have 1 single event (ie the country show)? Can't we also enjoy other events?

[gaijingirl]

Having read the explanation, I can understand Lambeth's concerns, but I don't think that their "solution" is either appropriate or, frankly, that it solves anything!!

What I would like Lambeth to do is research other ways of solving this problem.

The reality is that you're unlikely to suddenly get 100,000 people turning up to a green fair for example.. it's quite a different scenario to a heavily promoted top DJ!

There really must be some middle ground between 2,000 and 100,000 people.

For example, in a worse case scenario, if an event became visibly overcrowded then the council could just demand that the music is turned off and/or the sale of alcohol is stopped. In the case of commercial businesses running events, could there be fines for contravening the agreed number of participants?

I expect there are reasons why these two ideas wouldn't work and I'm not an expert in open event licencing - however, even I can see that this new situation is not at all satisfactory, neither for local residents, nor, I would have thought, for the council.

Reading this thread (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4478712&postcount=27), I would like to see the council maybe talking to other councils around the UK to see how they deal with this issue and/or exploring other options.

[tarannau]

I don't think you should expect me to try and explain or defend Tessa Jowell. All I'll say is that that deliberate under-estimating of event numbers, whether on the scale of Oakenfold or smaller events, causes a range of problems, around toilets, refreshements and clear-up.

I don't support mandatory fencing of small-scale events. But demarcation of larger events so parks/commons are still available for people who aren't going to festivals/concerts is probably a good thing.

Personally I don't follow the economics of a free fesitval in today's risk-averse world. Maybe we should just put more effort into getting the best out of the country show.

Erm, but Tessa Jowell didn't set Lambeth's parks policy did she. As far as I understand it, different local authorities don't have the same (stupid) requirement for a fence, regardless of past history, utility or need.

You say you don't support the policy cllr. Can you do anything to help change things going forward?

Lambeth Country Show, whilst great, shouldn't be considered the one and only free community event. I loved the idea behind Fair4Life - a chance for many of Brixton's old community and party scene figures to give their time free and give something back, helping to raise awareness and money for a different medical cause every year. Sadly the actions and jobsworthy policy of the council meant that a few people just lost money, meaning nothing bar basic contributions to charity and no event this year. An awful lot of people worked their arse off for free that year - all essentially just to pay for a fuck off fence that worked against a free community event really. It's just a huge lost opportunity - the Country Show's too big to effectively tack other causes on.

:(

[PieEye]

What about this?

It seems like case by case approach could be a reasonable way to do things. Going on type of event, previous attendance numbers, growth trends, amount of promotion and then decide if they deem an enclosure necessary?

It wouldn't take a huge amount of common sense to work out which ones are likely to attract huge numbers surely?

And does anyone know the answer to this?

Is the Country Show going to be fenced then???

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Just got a reply from one of the three councillors in our area. It was the green councillor so you'd expect her to be up on it I suppose but it's better than nothing.:)

[tarannau]

Is the Country Show going to be fenced then???


Strangely enough, no-one connected to the council seems to have answered this query either. I'd love to hear the logic behind why the Country Show, traditionally one of the biggest free festivals on the park and where overcrowding issues are perhaps more likely, doesn't need a fence. Why the double standard?

[DJWrongspeed]

The Rise festival in Burgess Park last year had no fence, it was HUGE, the weather great and could've been even alot busier than it was. I don't think most Londoners know where Burgess Park is!

[PieEye]

Lib Peck is going to get back to me about my query - the other one hasn't responded yet so I'll chase.

[gaijingirl]

Cllr Smith has sent my enquiry about the fencing of the Country Fair on to his colleagues. The thing is, the last thing I want to do is see that fenced too!