View Full Version : Unqualified vindication of Paddick from the Met
Met's response to Blunkett's announcement (http://www.met.police.uk/pns/DisplayPN.cgi?pn_id=2002_0143)
We will be developing a briefing programme for our OCU Commanders and their officers in handling the changes to deliver a uniform approach to the policing of cannabis possession across London as soon as is practicable."
Someone in Vauxhall should have a smile on their face. Enjoy. :)
And at last, some sober statistics.
A statistical summary of the MPS Lambeth Cannabis pilot follows:
Lambeth Cannabis Pilot Statistics
Cannabis
In 12 months to June 2001, 575 possession arrests: in the first 11 months of pilot (to May 2002) 1190 warnings, an increase of 107% in interventions in 11 months not 12.
Class A Trafficking
In 12 months to June 2001, 204 offences for which arrests were made: in the first 11 months of the pilot (to May), 224 offences for which arrests were made, an increase of 10% in 11 months not 12.
Crack Cocaine
In 12 months to June 2001, 70 offences for which arrests were made: in first 11 months since pilot began (to May), 101 offences for which arrests were made, an increase of 44% in 11 months not 12.
Stop and Search
Stop and searches in Lambeth for drugs rose by 71% in the first 5 months of this year (1927 rather than 3300). This data is incomplete and the percentage is likely to increase.
Drug Tourism
Of those accused of Class A drug supplying offences in the 12 months to June 2001, 82 (49%) were Lambeth residents out of a total of 166.
In 11months to May 2002, 80 (59%) were Lambeth residents out of a total of 134.
The statistics in relation to the possession of cannabis show only a change of 2% more Lambeth residents.
Schools Data
75%, 50 out of 66 junior schools responded to the survey.
70%, 7 out of 10 secondary schools responded to the survey.
Junior schools reported no change in the incidents relating to cannabis.
Incidents in secondary schools attributed to cannabis had decreased, with less confiscation’s taking place (a total of 4 confiscation’s of cannabis).
Both junior and secondary schools reported some dealing in cannabis in the vicinity of schools but no increase.
Secondary schools reported 4 exclusions; due to cannabis (related to the possession reported above), this was an increase
tarannau
10-07-2002, 16:09
Great news, great stats:D
William of Walworth
10-07-2002, 16:09
Someone in Vauxhall should have a smile on their face
Not Kate Hoey** obviously :D :p
**well maybe she doesn't live in Vauxhall but you get my point ...
I am particularly interested in this from the Police ...
"We will be developing a briefing programme for our OCU Commanders and their officers in handling the changes to deliver a uniform approach to the policing of cannabis possession across London as soon as is practicable."
Snorkelboy
10-07-2002, 16:13
I have to say that those stats are completely meaningless unless there is a "control" ie: comparison with another area crease/decrease in these crimes over the same time.
I'm not saying that the scheme hasn't been a success - just that those stats can't be used on their own.
snorkelboy: if you plow through the met stats, you can do the comparisons. They're impressive. An easy way is to express Lambeth's crime stats as a share of the London total. From memory:
July 2001
Lambeth;s share of street crime (robbery from persons +snatches) : 14%
May 2002
Lambeth's share of street crime: 8.9%
July 2001
Lambeth's share of domestic burglary: 8.4%
May 2002:
Lambeths share of domestic burglary: 7%
And so on
Again from memory, Lambeth has total crime figures which represent between 5% and 6% of London's total. That's with about 3% of the population. So we're bad 'uns in these parts. But there are about 6 other (inner london) boroughs that are worse in those terms, something that's forgotten by people who slag off Lambeth
I'm not very good at remembering statistics, but you can just feel that street crime has gone down in Brixton/Lambeth.
hatboy: I agree. May be coming back to you to use that quote "in another place" ;)
Peter Matisse
10-07-2002, 22:12
Message for Kate Hoey;
'Sorry seems to be the hardest word !':p
Yes, the stats are impressive, and even more so when set against London-wide trends :D
Mrs Magpie
11-07-2002, 01:19
I'm with hatboy on this one...the difference in Lambeth is TANGIBLE....how much better it would be with Brian back at the helm of Lambeth Division........
Dare I say it, but I think today's events may be the end of the crazy anti-Lambeth experiment attacks.
And we can expect to see the 'experiment' rolled-out London wide until cannabis is 'class C' and it all becomes illegal to do otherwise!
Of course, we have yet to see the return of Paddick to his rightful post. But surely it is a matter of time now.
Anyway, I just want to say great work you guys - U75 surely played a hugely significant role in all of this.
:D :D :D :D :D
The Times: Police on the beat see 'softly, softly' failure in Brixton (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-352702,00.html)
Who to believe?
A reasoned leader too:
Blunkett's cannabis policy is muddled but not dangerous (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542-352779,00.html)
Caspar Hauser
11-07-2002, 05:48
Over the next two weeks we will explain to the community our plans to adjust the scheme and from the 1st August Lambeth officers will then have the discretion to continue issuing warnings or return to making arrests where aggravating factors apply.
An unnamed police officer claimed the project had not worked and said that school children who were smoking cannabis with impunity were no longer being arrested and referred to drug workers.
Police retain discretion over arrest for cannabis use (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=313981)
I have some questions.
Does that mean that under the 'Lambeth Experiment' no one with small quantities of cannabis can be arrested or do the officers have some discretion?
And what would happen to this 'poor' unnamed police officer if he arrested this school children. Would he get a dressing down or would he be disciplined?
Can somebody enlighten me?
Peter Matisse
11-07-2002, 06:23
Caspar
If my understanding is correct, then it is still a criminal offence for children to smoke cannabis and the police officer would have no reason to fear making an arrest.
Even though cannabis has been reclassified it has not been decriminalised.
The reclassification has allowed the police force to make the 'softly, softly' approach an official policing policy, instead of an unofficial one.
If the police decide it is appropiate you still can be arrested for possesion of cannabis.
At least that is my understanding of the position, but there are many knowledegable folk who post here and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong.
Edited for typo 11/07/02
brixtonvilla
11-07-2002, 06:55
As someone who mouthed off about how the neighbourhood had gone way downhill in the first few months of the experiement, I'm pleased to agree that things have got a lot better. Hurrah!
:)
My understanding is:
1. From 1 August in Lambeth police officers will be told that they may arrest people for possession of small amounts of cannabis if it is being smoked openly or if children are involved. In the vast majority of cases, they will be expected to 'seize and warn' as now.
2. As soon as possible after that (probably October), throughout London, officers will follow these same guidelines.
3. In October the Association of Chief Police Officers will agree the same guidelines and will implement them across the country.
4. Not until July next year will cannabis be reclassified from 'B' to 'C'. At the same time, a new power of arrest will be introduced to allow the police to arrest for possession of small amounts of cannabis only if it is smoked openly or children are involved.
5. Until July next year, police officers everywhere will have the legal power to arrest anyone for cannabis, even though the guidelines say they shouldn't.
Hope that helps!
Caspar Hauser
11-07-2002, 09:49
Thanks Brian.
I think I weren't precise enough. My question is not what will happen but what happend during the last year in Brixton. :)
What I want to know is if your officers had the power to arrest children openly smocking dope. Because this 'unnamed police officer' complained that he couldn't do it.
Hmmm.
Seems to me that the sensible thing to do with any kid found smoking dope is pretty much the same as if they were found drinking alcohol or smoking fags. Throw it down the drain and frog march them into school or back home.Can't see that arresting kids is likely to achieve much.
Mr Retro
11-07-2002, 16:09
The traditional punishment for smoking fags was make the kids smoke all the rest making them sick. Maybe a bad thing to do with weed? ;)
Does the reported saving of police time equivalent to two officers include any time subsequently spent in the courts?
agricola
17-07-2002, 19:48
pooka,
probably not, since most people that get nicked for cannabis usually get a caution unless they dont admit it - but to get a caution takes virtually the same time as being charged anyway (paperwork and so forth)
agricola
Mrs Magpie
17-07-2002, 20:28
A big problem regarding the Brixton Experiment seems to be the widespread confusion between a warning and a caution. I have widely heard the BBC say 'caution' when they mean a warning....
vBulletin® v3.6.10, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.