View Full Version : The Destruction of Empty Buildings Betting Game
Reading in my local rag, that another historic building in Hackney "accidently" burnt down.The following link mentions the history of the building, how it had been sold and how the new owners had not been allowed to pull it down (it is listed).
http://www.derelictlondon.com/st_mary_s_lodge_stoke_newington.htm
And now, solving all the problems of the owners, there has been a very bad fire!
The other year, the old department store in Hackney had failed to reach it's auction price and then, surprise, two weeks later, fire destroys it ( http://www.derelictlondon.com/london_s_burning.htm - hackney photo by me)The back buildings, then had another arson attack completely clearing another large area.
So I'm now deciding which building I think will be burnt down next - there is a big listed house on Mare St which has recently been auctioned. There are plans to turn it into luxary flats but no work has started. Give it a year and then we might have a surprise fire! Also old Dalston theatre is another great canididate as well as the run down terraces of Dalston lane. Both are causing developers problems!
i heard about the latest fire, sounds well dodgy, as did the gibson brother department store which burned down, as you say, a few weeks after not being sold
mind you, this isn't just a hackney thing
when i worked in notting hill, i watched the facade of a church collapse, the contractors who were converting it into loft style apartments :rolleyes: were supposed to maintain the facade....it was actually cheaper to rebuild the facade in the same style, than maintain the original one, and hey presto, it collapsed, how the hell did that happen ;)
Donna Ferentes
22-08-2005, 11:15
Also see the Brighton pier fire...
Down in Stockwell, there was an old school building, that although not listed was in a conservation area which was swiftly knocked down to be replaced with an identical one. My dad reckoned they weren't allowed to knock the old school down but by building a similar style building, it got around conservation issues.
was that old department store a listed building? i passed there a few weeks ago, and they still haven't started rebuilding it, or building anything. If a listed building burns down, can a completely new building replace it? or do they have to build in a similar style
I don't think the department store was listed but it is in a conservation area. So any new build would have to be sympathetic to the area's aesthetic. so I think it will be the graffitited run down council estate look!!!
Actually the old town hall on the Narrow Way is an ideal candidate for a fire. Give it a few years if no-one does anything with it.
Also old Dalston theatre is another great canididate as well as the run down terraces of Dalston lane. Both are causing developers problems!
There are lots of burnt out places along Dalston Lane already, and that building on the opposite side of Dalston Lane from the theatre, set back from the road down a side street has been hit a couple of times. It's been empty since they moved the squatters & their vehicles on a while back.
Dalson Theatre I'm not so sure about. There are people living in Africa House which is ajoining, plus there is the Open Dalston group campaigning against it being levelled. Mind you, I guess all that means is that a fire would be even more suspicious, once it's burnt down, it's burnt down isn't it. :(
I've noticed that people go into the old theatre - there is a door up some stairs which is often open. It isn't listed which makes it easier to knock down - I read in the Gazette that it had been as fancy as the Hackney Empire. I couldn't find any old photos of it at the archives. We'll see what happens......
You can email info@opendalston.net (IIRC) for some info about their campaign to save it & other parts of the surrounding area. They're being flattened for the East London line extn.
Bristly Pioneer
24-08-2005, 15:22
an old warehouse accross the road from me in Aldgate burnt down last year. I remember speaking to the firemen at the time who said it really pisses them off, although it very hard to prove. Apparently a candle in a can of petrol is the preferred method.
On this occasion, the people in the building had been given notice and moved out a week or two before, then hey presto a fire clears the area ready for the planning application which had already been submitted to the council.
It was a beautiful building too. :mad: :(
Pitsmoor Working-Mens Club, which was a fairly ugly building, is now a very ugly building following....a mysterious fire which occurred shortly after a failed sale attempt!
PacificOcean
24-08-2005, 15:50
Maybe a lot of Hackney's residents are pyromaniacs?
Maybe a lot of Hackney's residents are pyromaniacs?
Well, with my expanding collection of photos I'd taken of places on fire, I have been accused of being the Phantom Fire Starter.
You can email info@opendalston.net (IIRC) for some info about their campaign to save it & other parts of the surrounding area. They're being flattened for the East London line extn.
Thanks for that. Read an article about saving Dalston Lane in the Standard a few months ago. Good idea.
durruti02
25-08-2005, 18:20
the unused One O'Clock toddlers club (shut by the council couple of years previous) in Clapton by the river mysteriously burnt down as a planning application went in to build a school ..
there was an attempt to burn it down with petrol/rag the previous day .. fireman said it was arson attempt then but not worth persuing .. nothing heard after ..
Saw that the other day. Is nothing safe?
the unused One O'Clock toddlers club (shut by the council couple of years previous) in Clapton by the river mysteriously burnt down as a planning application went in to build a school ..
there was an attempt to burn it down with petrol/rag the previous day .. fireman said it was arson attempt then but not worth persuing .. nothing heard after ..
i saw that (well not the fire, the burnt out shell) thought it well dodgy at the time
hackney, this borough's on fire :eek:
Last proper flames in the air kinda fire I saw was on the Hackney/Islington borders. Balls Pond road meets Essex Road. Mechanics on fire destroying old cottage behind.
yep, I think it's a Hackney thang!
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 10:04
I wonder how long it will take for someone to come along and say something childish like it's only Hackney, who cares? or there's nothing in Hackney worth saving, or borough-wide fire would improve Hackney greatly and so on.
Of course I would never dream of saying such things.
and it would never happen somewhere else, like <picks a random near london place> windsor...oh it did :D
I wonder how long it will take for someone to come along and say something childish like it's only Hackney, who cares? or there's nothing in Hackney worth saving, or borough-wide fire would improve Hackney greatly and so on.
Of course I would never dream of saying such things.
For the anti-Hackney folks some exciting facts for those silent moments at dinner parties:
Hackney has the Eurpoean record for most tower block demolitions.
Samuel Pepys use to come to Hackney to check out the school girls who he thought were a better batch than the Putney ladies.
The Hackney siege of 2003 was one of the UK's longest.
ermmm...... running out of reasons not to set fire to the whole place......
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 10:23
For the anti-Hackney folks some exciting facts for those silent moments at dinner parties:
Hackney has the Eurpoean record for most tower block demolitions.
Samuel Pepys use to come to Hackney to check out the school girls who he thought were a better batch than the Putney ladies.
The Hackney siege of 2003 was one of the UK's longest.
ermmm...... running out of reasons not to set fire to the whole place......
Yes, not really selling it are you?
Though as I am in Tower Hamlets - Pot and kettle spring to mind ;)
Yes, not really selling it are you?
Though as I am in Tower Hamlets - Pot and kettle spring to mind ;)
We do have the River Lea passing through and quite alot of nature reservoirs as well as East London's oldest brick house - Sutton House.
And Tower Hamlets' highlights are?
exosculate
26-08-2005, 10:42
Its been postulated for years that derelict but yet listed buildings have a higher risk of random arson attacks in periods of higher buoyancy in the property market.
What could it all mean?
We do have the River Lea passing through and quite alot of nature reservoirs as well as East London's oldest brick house - Sutton House.
And Tower Hamlets' highlights are?
i got married at sutton house :cool:
yep, the nature reserves along the marshes are great, although tbf, i was down at mile end a few weeks ago, and the park there looks pretty good, wild meadows and that, and the grassy bridge
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 10:54
And Tower Hamlets' highlights are?
Fabulous street markets
Brick Lane
The headquaters of The Sun
A much lower chance of getting caught in gangland crossfire
and I live there, which is blue plaque worthy in itself.
exosculate
26-08-2005, 10:56
Fabulous street markets
Brick Lane
The headquaters of The Sun
Lower chance of getting shot in some gang fued
and I live there, which is blue plaque worthy in itself.
What does it say :
----------------------
Pacific Ocean
Lives here
STILL
-----------------------
Fabulous street markets
Brick Lane
The headquaters of The Sun
A much lower chance of getting caught in gangland crossfire
and I live there, which is blue plaque worthy in itself.
And you're next to Hackney in case it all get's rather dull.
btw I actually live in Haringey on the borders of Hackney. :o
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 11:01
What does it say :
----------------------
Pacific Ocean
Lives here
STILL
-----------------------
:D
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 11:02
And you're next to Hackney in case it all get's rather dull.
btw I actually live in Haringey on the borders of Hackney. :o
What Manor House?
The dark side of Stamford hill. I have the benefit of being able to have a Hackney Library card. Lucky, lucky me. And I can catch one of the most dangerous buses in London - 253 - marvellous!
The dark side of Stamford hill. I have the benefit of being able to have a Hackney Library card. Lucky, lucky me. And I can catch on of the most dangerous buses in London - 253 - marvellous!
i get the 253 as well, and the 106, and the 393, and the 56, and 48, and 38...loads of buses :cool:
i get the 253 as well, and the 106, and the 393, and the 56, and 48, and 38...loads of buses :cool:
the privileges of living in Hackney..... :rolleyes: :D
PacificOcean
26-08-2005, 11:26
the privileges of living in Hackney..... :rolleyes: :D
Ha! That's another thing crap thing about Hackney - no tube lines. I have four different lines within walking distance of my house.
Ha! That's another thing crap thing about Hackney - no tube lines. I have four different lines within walking distance of my house.
I haven't really noticed the lack of tube whilst living in Hackney. The buses & the 2 overland lines are fine enough.
Ha! That's another thing crap thing about Hackney - no tube lines. I have four different lines within walking distance of my house.
We live by the Way of the Bus - it's main philosophy is that you'll will get there when you are meant to. It's a much calmer approach to travelling -you get to watch the world go by and you can jump off the bus if it is not going anywhere.
Ha! That's another thing crap thing about Hackney - no tube lines. I have four different lines within walking distance of my house.
i haven't lived near a tube for 12 years, it's not a great hardship, i can get a bus to bethnal green tube, finsbury park tube, manor house tube, trains to liverpool st, seven sisters, another train to highbury corner....so i can be on a tube fairly quickly if i needed to be
HackneyE9
16-08-2006, 22:31
Glad I've found this thread (if it's not too late).
I suspect that wonderful Elizabethan house on Mare Street might be next - it was the Elizabeth Fry house for "fallen" women at one point in its history, as well as a local drinking club in recent years.
Just a lot easier to build a Noddy toytown rabbit hutch block of flats than convert a listed house, isn't it? And, of course, Hackney could really do with some more "executive" apartments for bachelor, 20-something in debt financial services salesman.
Going way back upthread, my wife had a studio in the block next to the one that burned down in Aldgate, and it was bloody dangerous. They were on the top floor and had to evacuate pretty sharpish. No wonder the fire brigade get pissed off with it - for them it's not architectural vandalism, it's actually putting their lives in danger.
the mystery fire is a skill honed in closed down mental hospitals in the south east in the 90s.
see just about every hospital in the old 'epsom cluster' and a couple in banstead.
if u cant develop it. burn it. then develop it.
HackneyE9
16-08-2006, 22:57
To add insult to injury is the wide-eyed way the Hackney Gazette reports these things. Ok, they can't just say X is a fucking arsonist property developer, but it's all oh, there's been a fire, oh the building was empty, oh it had just been sold, oh it's next to the train station (very convenient transport links etc etc)...I mean! Engage your brain! Pilger it ain't.
the mystery fire is a skill honed in closed down mental hospitals in the south east in the 90s.
see just about every hospital in the old 'epsom cluster' and a couple in banstead.
if u cant develop it. burn it. then develop it.
Eh? I thought that the old mental hospitals WERE all being developed into the usual "luxury flats"??? At least, according to that guy who does the photo "tours" around them and posts the pics on here and other places.....
Giles..
Glad I've found this thread (if it's not too late).
I suspect that wonderful Elizabethan house on Mare Street might be next - it was the Elizabeth Fry house for "fallen" women at one point in its history, as well as a local drinking club in recent years.
That's the one I mention in my first post. I think I wince everytime I'm just around the corner from these buildings because they might not be there or have become some burnt shell.
So I'm now deciding which building I think will be burnt down next -
Unemployment can be a wonderful thing..
:)
lang rabbie
17-08-2006, 09:19
Elizabethan?!? - this sounds like folk history in the making as people vaguely remember the plaque to Elizabeth Fry...
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/img_200/21390001.jpg
Name:New Lansdowne Club, 195 Mare Street, Hackney E8
Listed Building Grade:II*
Scheduled Monument:No
Conservation Area:No
Condition:Poor
Occupancy:Occupied
Ownership Type:CompanySummary:Substantial detached house, 1715. In use as a working men's club but in need of extensive repairs. Listed building consent and planning permission has been granted for the repair and refurbishment of the main building for use as a Vietnamese Cultural Centre along with a residential development to the rear
bluestreak
17-08-2006, 09:32
personally i think developers who suffer convenient arson attacks should be publicly immolated themselves.
what pisses me off more is that it would very simple for a law to be passed requiring property owners to undertake basic fire prevention on these at risk buildings making them responsible but it ain't going to happen. the rich look after their own.
oooh, overpriced new build rabbit hutch? for me? *gets mortgage*
The one I remember was the listed harbour warehouse in Bristol that conveniently burned down so they could build new harbourside partments. the bastards.
Luckily, all our clients at the moment are either public sector or utterly filthy rich who wouldn't ponce around with single buildings when they could be developing entire blocks of central london (which are a little tricky to burn down), or I'd have a crisis of conscience!
HackneyE9
18-08-2006, 10:06
Ok, so it's "only" a Grade II listed house from 1715, not Elizabethan. Burn it down then.
HackneyE9
25-08-2006, 12:00
Fantastic interview with Ian Sinclair in this week's Hackney Gazette. At the end of a bog-standard Sinclair style tour of Abney Cemetary, he turns on the reporter and quizzes him about all the mystery arson attacks on Dalston Lane and the rampant property speculation around the East London Line extension.
Reporter is reduced to writing: "Mr Sinclair appears very well-informed about local matters."
Hmm. Yeah. And not from reading the Gazette, that's for sure!
The South Islands Place Library in SW9 is due to be made into housing. The sign claims it'll be affordable housing, but there's clearly some dodgyness going on cos if you look at the building from a couple of streets away at the back the green (copper?) roofing has clearly been ripped up. Is this to let water in & make sure the place becomes unstable & then gets knocked down?
The location of this building may mean it is of interest to the OP.
lang rabbie
08-09-2006, 15:16
The South Islands Place Library in SW9 is due to be made into housing. The sign claims it'll be affordable housing, but there's clearly some dodgyness going on cos if you look at the building from a couple of streets away at the back the green (copper?) roofing has clearly been ripped up. Is this to let water in & make sure the place becomes unstable & then gets knocked down?
:confused: There's no conspiracy - the planning permission granted to London & Quadrant in May was for:
Demolition of the former library building and erection of a new 4 storey building comprising 19 affordable flats (4 x 1-bed, 13 x 2-bed, 2 x 3-bed), with 19 secure cycle parking spaces and associated refuse storage and landscaping
Maybe the roof was damaged before May then?
lang rabbie
08-09-2006, 18:14
Maybe the roof was damaged before May then?
I think it is just the housing association's contractors starting demolition, isn't it :confused:
AFAIK ever since Lambeth moved the mobile library service out (to Herne Hill?) and put the property on the disposal list there hasn't been any suggestion that the present 1950s building was going to be kept?
Surely it's easier to take down a sound building than one which is potentially dangerous?
Anyway, never mind.
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