View Full Version : Getting Mugged In Brixton
It's 1:15 on Saturday morning. For some reason I've booted up the computer and I'm now going to post a "I've been mugged in Brixton" thread.
It hardly feels like a mugging to be honest. The two young men who asked me for the time, then pursued me on Railton Road, ripped off my watch and picked up the change that had fallen out of my pockets when I tripped over were not the most lethal of individuals; indeed I thought: 'is that the best you can do' as they ran away and I dusted myself off.
Later I told the police the two guys had seemed like athletes; at forty one being outpaced by the late teen criminal brings an intimation of mortality and a warning: spend more time in the gym or face being taken down more frequently by the moronic street creatures.
The police too, an education. The white senior officer who asked me why I lived in Brixton and who, as he drove me around while we attempted to mugger spot, described the place as a shit hole; was vocally unimpressed as I listed the many and various reasons why I lived here. I pointed out that the policing had improved - he seemed unpersuaded. His black junior partner who said precisely nothing, and to whom I apologised as I described my assailants as merely being black, six footish and fairly muscular. I only got a glimpse of them. I'd spent most of the forty second encounter trying to run away.
But other and better things from the experience; The locksmith who changed my locks within two hours of the mugging, and Mrs Magpie who got Russ the amazing guide dog round to my house for a bit of doggy company. Amazing the manner in which these most innocent and enthusiastic of creatures comfort the bruised ego.
I wanted to move house afterwards. For about one and a half minutes. But why let scum bags screw up something so excellent? Fuck them.
Sorry to hear what happened to you - and glad you're OK.
They may not have caused you physical harm, but those cowardly cunts are scumbags.
But Brixton's bigger and better than those fuckers!
Sorry to hear what happened to you - and glad you're OK.
Me too - but I know & you'll know of course & most people know that this sort of thing doesn't just happen in Brixton......there are disgusting violent thieving twats all over....
Glad to hear you had such good back-up afterwards - a shame the police officer had such a bad attitude though.
dogmatique
13-08-2005, 02:08
Mucho sorryo Mr Hendo.
I went through exactly the same emotions... being shouted at by members of the constabulary as you're being driven round Brixton is doubly soul destroying as you're spat out with no result and a bloody nose on Gresham Rd, only to record a crime number though plexi-glass - the only solice being a proffered piece of kitchen roll slid though the trap.............
Anyone else?
Stobart Stopper
13-08-2005, 06:35
The police too, an education. The white senior officer who asked me why I lived in Brixton and who, as he drove me around while we attempted to mugger spot, described the place as a shit hole; was vocally unimpressed as I listed the many and various reasons why I lived here.
Don't forget they see the victims of crime, day in, day out.It's quite natural for him to say these things, he doesn't see the positive sides becasue he deals with just the negatives 99.9 per cent of the time. He spends his day reporting crime, dealing with victims and answering compliants, so he's every reason to believe that the area is a shithole. And the other thing is that you live there so you must believe that it's ok, or you wouldn't live there.
We live in Hainault, we think it's ok, cops who live far out in Essex who work here probably think it's yob central.
I am really sorry to hear about you getting mugged Hendo, hope you are ok. It might be "just a mugging/street robbery" to some but thngs like this can really shake you up.
And I bet the cops try to log it as a "snatch" instead of robbery to keep the figures down,was there any violence or threat of violence? ie did they yank your arm when they took the watch off, it MUST be logged as robbery as they used violence.
supercity
13-08-2005, 07:22
Sorry to hear about this, Hendo, and I know exactly what you mean by the intimations of mortality.
It's only happened to me once in the 16 or so years I've lived here, but I remember the feeling of blind, impotent rage like it was yesterday. Hope it doesn't affect the way you lead your life.
I hope the bastards make the mistake of picking on somone who frightens the shit out of them.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 08:51
a shame the police officer had such a bad attitude though.I didn't know he'd said that in the car...interestingly when he left your house we'd universally marked him down as a knob end....
lang rabbie
13-08-2005, 09:08
Sorry to hear this, hendo :(
Just hope this thread gets drawn to the attention of the local Super and Borough commander. However lousy a shift they've had, no police officer should be writing off the home town of the community they serve as a shit hole. :mad:
aurora green
13-08-2005, 09:11
Sorry to hear this Hendo.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 09:13
It's all too common I'm afraid, rabbie ...when my Mum stopped to pat a Police horse and chatted to the officer and she said she was on holiday, he spent the next five minutes slagging Brixton off. I was furious.
sorry to hear about that hendo... glad dum dum could be of service! :(
Donna Ferentes
13-08-2005, 09:20
Hope you're OK.
My experience with police officers is that one is nearly always a dick and the other nearly always isn't. I don't know if they're deliberately paired up on the basis of conflicting personalities?
Sorry to hear about this Hendo.
My experience with police officers is that one is nearly always a dick and the other nearly always isn't. I don't know if they're deliberately paired up on the basis of conflicting personalities?They're using the good cop/bad cop routine with victims now?
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 09:30
Interesting how the thread very quickly develops into slagging the police off when you should be attacking the muggers for being shit street scum.
Anyway..as a victim of crime you should be given a proffessional police service. But the policeman , although he should be censored for giving his personal opinions out , has the right to think what he likes. His opinions are developed by his experiences just the same as yours. His experience of Brixton is not a good and happy one and he's entitled to that...probably more than you are as you don't experience 0.5% of what he does. There are no rules to say you have to like the place you work in. Indeed you wouldn't find many experienced coppers working in inner London Boroughs if there were regulations to say you had to ' love ' the borough you have to police. Most of the officers I know don't live in London and don't frankly want to if they could afford it.
Now what's got you upset is that you live in Brixton and naturally you think its' a great place so you don't like people slagging it off. Understandable emotion. Yeah, he should have been a bit more PC...maybe he had a bad night reporting his third mugging in Brixton . Hey, its' a great place to live.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 09:36
It is a great place to live though...no-one likes to hear the place they love slagged off...I do think working for the police does affect outlook...seeing the worst of human nature all the time must affect how you view the world.
Interesting how the thread very quickly develops into slagging the police off when you should be attacking the muggers for being shit street scum.We all know the muggers are scum - there's no point in stating the obvious. Whereas you should expect the police to try and be supportive to a crime victim.
Pickman's model
13-08-2005, 09:40
i'm very sorry to hear about yr experience, hendo. :(
i hope it isn't affecting you much.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 09:40
They were suportive, Maggot, it's just one of them was definitely a knob end. You get them in all walks of life.
Pickman's model
13-08-2005, 09:44
Interesting how the thread very quickly develops into slagging the police off when you should be attacking the muggers for being shit street scum.
Anyway..as a victim of crime you should be given a proffessional police service. But the policeman , although he should be censored for giving his personal opinions out , has the right to think what he likes. His opinions are developed by his experiences just the same as yours. His experience of Brixton is not a good and happy one and he's entitled to that...probably more than you are as you don't experience 0.5% of what he does. There are no rules to say you have to like the place you work in. Indeed you wouldn't find many experienced coppers working in inner London Boroughs if there were regulations to say you had to ' love ' the borough you have to police. Most of the officers I know don't live in London and don't frankly want to if they could afford it.
Now what's got you upset is that you live in Brixton and naturally you think its' a great place so you don't like people slagging it off. Understandable emotion. Yeah, he should have been a bit more PC...maybe he had a bad night reporting his third mugging in Brixton . Hey, its' a great place to live.perhaps the officer should have restricted his comments to things relevant to the case at hand. describing where one lives as a shit hole is unlikely to endear the copper to the people he is supposed to be serving. coppers' experience of brixton (and hackney) is obviously going to have focussed on the negative side of things, and often omit the more positive things which attract people to those areas. so plod have an unbalanced view of where they work. of course coppers can think what they want - but from what's been said on the thread, they should sometimes engage brain before speaking.
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 09:49
Hope you're OK.
My experience with police officers is that one is nearly always a dick and the other nearly always isn't. I don't know if they're deliberately paired up on the basis of conflicting personalities?
Wow...sooner they make police people from the same DNA pool the better then we can have them all like robots. They can think the same, speak the same, arrest people the same way and give evidence the same ;) ;) We could programme them every morning to go out and ' love Brixton ' and really dig the cool people of Hackney ! It would be great.
Seriously its' quite bloody amazing that people react to uniforms in this way. As if its' quite wrong for them to have any opinion whatsoever. And if they do have an opinion then because they are police and its' different from the way you think its' cause for some great swinging complaint.
Thats' why I stopped posting here...no wonder.
aurora green
13-08-2005, 09:53
It's the last thing you want though, the implication that it's your own fault for living in such a place.
lang rabbie
13-08-2005, 10:00
I wasn't suggesting that every police officer serving in Lambeth should be forbidden from holding the view that Brixton (or Streatham or Stockwell for that matter) "is a shithole" and that those holding such views are guilty of "thought crime".
All I suggested was that it really isn't very sensible for police-community relations for any officer (who has a 95%+ likelihood of living outside the Borough) to share this view out loud with victims of crime who live in the area, and in many cases don't have a chance of moving out.
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 10:04
perhaps the officer should have restricted his comments to things relevant to the case at hand. describing where one lives as a shit hole is unlikely to endear the copper to the people he is supposed to be serving. coppers' experience of brixton (and hackney) is obviously going to have focussed on the negative side of things, and often omit the more positive things which attract people to those areas. so plod have an unbalanced view of where they work. of course coppers can think what they want - but from what's been said on the thread, they should sometimes engage brain before speaking.
I agree, some of the young ones don't have the necessary skills to assess the person your dealing with. Some victims want to here the ' its' all rosy alright it won't happen again talk ' and some want to here ' its' not your fault things have got really bad around here lately ' routine. Some want the truth and some can't handle it. Juts like these boards really. Yeah, your right people should engage the old gey matter before speaking.Some of the posters on Urban would qualify in that respect ! But coppers aren't robocops and they are all different even if they do wear the same uniforms. Unless you want them to be robots of course. Even then you'd find a complaint wouldn't you ?
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 10:12
I wasn't suggesting that every police officer serving in Lambeth should be forbidden from holding the view that Brixton (or Streatham or Stockwell for that matter) "is a shithole" and that those holding such views are guilty of "thought crime".
All I suggested was that it really isn't very sensible for police-community relations for any officer (who has a 95%+ likelihood of living outside the Borough) to share this view out loud with victims of crime who live in the area, and in many cases don't have a chance of moving out.
Agreed. I think I am going to suggest they print a form ( blue with red underlines- hmmm I do like a good form ) then we could just issue it to the victim and ask him to fill it out avoiding unnecessary comments and public interaction. The bottom of the form could have the following perhaps...
1. Was it your fault you were a victim.
(A) Yes. I'm a twat for going out at night in a bad area.
(B) No. But I could have been sober and not talked on my expensive phone.
(c) Don't know, but can you give me a crime number for my insurance claim.
Design your victim questions here.dot .com.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 10:19
PBP, you're a scamp!
Donna Ferentes
13-08-2005, 10:20
Seriously its' quite bloody amazing that people react to uniforms in this way. As if its' quite wrong for them to have any opinion whatsoever. What a load of self-pitying tosh. The only person complaining about people having "any opinion whatsoever" is yourself.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 10:20
btw, hendo was walking back from work, not on phone and stone-cold-sober.
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 10:25
What a load of self-pitying tosh. The only person complaining about people having "any opinion whatsoever" is yourself.
Yeah sorry. The complaint is not that he had an opinion but that he choose to air it in public. It would be better if he were chipped and was unable to have an opinion and gagged so he could not give it ! And I do pity myself everyday....but only when I'm sober which isn't often thank god.
Donna Ferentes
13-08-2005, 10:28
Yeah, we should never complain about police officers who despise the neighbourhoods they police. After all, it's nothing to with us. And we'd never complain if any other group of employees loathed a large proportion of their clientele, would we?
Pickman's model
13-08-2005, 10:31
I agree, some of the young ones don't have the necessary skills to assess the person your dealing with. Some victims want to here the ' its' all rosy alright it won't happen again talk ' and some want to here ' its' not your fault things have got really bad around here lately ' routine. Some want the truth and some can't handle it. Juts like these boards really. Yeah, your right people should engage the old gey matter before speaking.Some of the posters on Urban would qualify in that respect ! But coppers aren't robocops and they are all different even if they do wear the same uniforms. Unless you want them to be robots of course. Even then you'd find a complaint wouldn't you ?let's sort out all the problems with the human cops first and then start worrying about robots if and when they're introduced.
Pickman's model
13-08-2005, 10:33
Yeah sorry. The complaint is not that he had an opinion but that he choose to air it in public. It would be better if he were chipped and was unable to have an opinion and gagged so he could not give it ! And I do pity myself everyday....but only when I'm sober which isn't often thank god.do you find that ethanol improves your interpersonal skills at work and ability to do your job? i've always found that the reverse is the rule.
Pot-Bellied Pig
13-08-2005, 10:45
btw, hendo was walking back from work, not on phone and stone-cold-sober.
Yes..I wasn,t aiming it at him specifically. In the end no-one deserves to be a victim of crime as such.
However some certainly ( and again I am not relating to specific cases ) put themselves in harm's way. So here are some guidelines from experience.
Rules.
1. If your going to get pissed up go home with friends, take a cab you can trust, or sober up so you can remember where you are and what you did.
2. If you must wear a Rolex cover it up when you get on the night bus on the top deck with three guys in hoodys.
3. Walking down unlit side streets at night talking on your mobile is not a good idea in some parts of london.
4. Ipods and MP3's are fun...but put them away when you are alone and vunerable. They attract attention.
5. Taking out wads of cash in the local kebab house at 3am when drunk will result in you coming to some notice amongst the local youth.
6. Carrying weapons for self-defence is understandable but not legal and most likely will result in it being used on you instead of by you.
7. If you must pose in your open top sports car in an expensive suit please put your designer handbag in the locked boot and steer clear of dropping off your schoolfriends in the middle of a dark estate at night
8. Going to buy your spliff from a new dealer in an unknown area may have certain drawbacks.
9. Agreeing to have a liason with a prostitute in a dark alleyway with her pimp and his mates around the corner is damaging to your wealth ( especailly if you invite her back to your place afterwards with her new boyfriend called Razor and his mate Jimmy Jack The Hat.
10. Giving money to street beggars is nice but don't get angry when they follow you around the corner and stomp on your head later for more.
I could go on. s I say no-one should be a victim of crime, but some people may as well tattoo it on their foreheads.
Stobart Stopper
13-08-2005, 10:58
Nice tagline btw!
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 11:01
Not as good as yours Stobart....
sorry to hear about this hendo... :(
Hope you're feeling ok...
x
Shit hendo sorry you met some thieving tossers, hope you're OK :)
His experience of Brixton is not a good and happy one and he's entitled to that...probably more than you are as you don't experience 0.5% of what he does.
Now what's got you upset is that you live in Brixton and naturally you think its' a great place so you don't like people slagging it off. Understandable emotion.
I don think a cop who doesnt live in Brixton as more right to his opinions than me.They are supposed to be trained professionals.
[QUOTE=Pot-Bellied Pig] Some want the truth and some can't handle it. Juts like these boards really. Yeah, your right people should engage the old gey matter before speaking.Some of the posters on Urban would qualify in that respect ! QUOTE]
Urban75 is a message/posting board not the police force.
wrysmile
13-08-2005, 15:07
Hope you weren't too shaken up Hendo.... sounds like a scary experience, take care xxx
Stop bothering that police woman gransci you hoodlum.
;)
EDIT: Not meant in any sense but good-natured i.e. not having a go at any poster or detracting from this serious thread.
Wow...sooner they make police people from the same DNA pool the better then we can have them all like robots. They can think the same, speak the same, arrest people the same way and give evidence the same ;) ;).
Police are supposed to be trained to arrest and give evidence in the correct professional manner.If your saying that makes them robots what kind of police force to you think should exist?
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 17:03
hendo, sorry to see it was a goalless draw...hope you made it to the match in time....
PBP, your advice for avoiding being a victim of crime is sound! :)
But I have to take issue about the cop & the negative comments about Brixton. It's basically rude & utterly unprofessional to slag off where the person you are serving, in a work capacity, lives. It doesn't matter what you think or what you say out of work (well, it does, but in a different way!). I've done work on some fairly bad estates in my time but would think it the last word in bad manners & unprofessionalism to slag off any neighbourhood to the people who live there.
Mrs Magpie
13-08-2005, 17:29
The worst example I heard (told me by another policeman who was born in this area) was from a young copper from another part of the country who said everyone who lived on council estates in Brixton was scum. That's an extreme example, but if people slag off where I live, I get at worse, angry, and at best, defensive.
bluestreak
13-08-2005, 17:56
PBP, your advice for avoiding being a victim of crime is sound! :)
But I have to take issue about the cop & the negative comments about Brixton. It's basically rude & utterly unprofessional to slag off where the person you are serving, in a work capacity, lives. It doesn't matter what you think or what you say out of work (well, it does, but in a different way!). I've done work on some fairly bad estates in my time but would think it the last word in bad manners & unprofessionalism to slag off any neighbourhood to the people who live there.
i totally agree with this post. PBP's advice is sound. the only time i've be successfully robbed was in brixton. i'd never been there before and gave a quid to a beggar outside KFC.... yes, i know NOW... who proceeded to grab a note out my wallet and get the fuck out of dodge. naturally i complained to the two coppers standing five paces away watching and the only response i got was "if you're stupid enough to get your wallet out..."
now i know that the whole area's scum thrive on this sort of thing, idiot people who aren't expecting to be mugged in a public place watched by coppers, but i think this also makes my criticism of the police valid when i wonder why this sort of thing was tolerated.
lunatrick
13-08-2005, 18:00
sorry to hear that hendo, but I don't think it's just limited to brixton, I know somebody who's been mugged in sheperds bush and kings cross, could happen anywhere really. As for the copper - well this kind of splits me 50/50. I can understand his bad attitude in a way - doesn't make it right, but dealing with all the scumbags continously must colour your view of the human race.......but it's quite easy not to be in police isn't it? I wouldn't do it, but somebody has to.
This makes me think of a funny quote by Rik Mayall in the young ones -
"I'm sick and tired of everybody slagging off the police - the next time sombody is smashing your front door down with baseball bat - try calling a left wing comedian....." genius.
Very, very funny lunatrick! :D
IntoStella
14-08-2005, 12:21
Hendo, just heard about your experience from Blind Lemon. Shee-it. I am increasingly of the opinion that getting a beat up old bike and cycling around Brixton at night is a good idea, especially on stretches like Railton Road by the playground and Somerleyton Road, which are altogether too long and deserted. :( :(
Thanks to everyone who's sent me PM's and supportive messages on this thread. Really it's only the ego that's bruised, and a graze on my right knee when I fell over.
And good to see the return of PBP, so something positive has emerged from the experience!
I had some misgivings when I reviewed the content of my original post which was probably a bit too frank about what the officer had said, but really PBP, is it helpful to knock the place you're policing? Rather had me feeling that the officer felt the battle had been lost. Which in the position I was in on Friday night was not really what I wanted to hear.
That being said he was very friendly and supportive to me personally which WAS what I wanted, and so was his colleague. So all in all the police experience was in no way bad, infact it was quite therapeutic being driven around in the back of the Astra, and he is entitled to a view as you say. He was not armed and yet was quite prepared to get out and confront these men on my say so; which is quite a thing on reflection.
No, the point about Friday was not the policemen but the muggers. Being pursued down the street by these blokes is not an experience I'd care to repeat, very scary. Then suddenly I was really angry and started really kicking out at them, and plainly NOT being afraid, AND getting on my feet, which presumably made them decide on running away.
So all in all not such a bad experience. Now the trick is to feel better about being on the street after dark. Railton is not usually dangerous because there are so many people around. But getting my confidence back is going to be a bit difficult, I think, even after such a relatively minor incident.
detective-boy
16-08-2005, 16:59
Having been there and tried it, it REALLY, REALLY is difficult to try and persuade young officers from somewhere very unlike Brixton, surrounded all day and every day with violent criminals, bloodied victims, cynical lawyers; ineffective magistrates courts, alcoholics and drug addicts who should be in hospital / rehab; care in the community patients who are receiving precisely zero care; battalions of people who are only too quick to complain and slow to praise and all the rest of the inner city“s rich tapestry of life that it isn“t really a shit-hole. Sadly they never get chance to see / try the good things, rushing from call to call and living miles away.
I really do think we should find some way of getting police officers living in the communities they serve, though it won“t be easy (not least because of fears of reprisals, cf. Liverpool, Belfast, Glasgow ...) :(
supercity
16-08-2005, 20:49
Detective boy, I know you get a lot of questions thrown at you on these boards, so apologies for this one.
I'd like to know what you think of the Japanese police koban system. Basically at all major stations, junctions and hotspots nationwide, there's a police box manned by at least 2 cops. Most of the time they do nothing but drink tea and give people directions, but they do break up drunken scuffles, and they are a point of contact for anyone who is a victim of crime. Also, their telling the time/giving directions functions help contribute to an image of the police force that is radically different from that which you 'enjoy'. They're still seen as social helpers.
For several years I lived in Tokyo, a city at least twice the size of London, with over twice its population, and on the day after I moved into a new flat, there was a knock at the door. It was the local cop from the koban on the corner, come to introduce himself, leave me his card and let me know he was available if I ever needed help.
While I'm not advocating that the British police should adopt the worst practices of the Japanese police (fitting people up, openly taking bribes from the mob and regularly getting on to Amnesty's hit-list), it did seem to me that on a local, personal level the system worked. Hell, a police man even lent me £50 one night to get home after the cashpoint had closed.
My only contact with the Brixton police was many years ago when I went to the station to produce my car documents. The desk cop's idea of bonding with me was to say: "God it's good to see a white face after a whole day dealing with this lot."
Sorry to hear about that mate...
The police too, an education. The white senior officer who asked me why I lived in Brixton
They are such a bunch of wankers. When someone attempted to torch my place about fifteen years ago, the cops who attended came out with 'well what do you expect living in a place like this' No inquiry, no forensics, nothing. And that was a clear case of attempted murder as at least three people were sleeping in the house that night.
Reporting a car theft about ten years ago, the officer on the front desk told me 'it was probably coons, who had your car'
Nice to see that 10-15 years later, they still have the same attitude to the place they police.
There are some people on here who moan on about posters who hate the police. Sometimes there is a very good reason for it.
john x
just seen this - sorry to hear about it hendo :(
For the record, I was only slightly disappointed in the policeman. (His colleague was fine).
It is, of course, the muggers that I really do despise.
detective-boy
17-08-2005, 18:04
Detective boy, I know you get a lot of questions thrown at you on these boards, so apologies for this one.
I'd like to know what you think of the Japanese police koban system.
Sounds like a good idea. The loss of routine non-confrontational encounters between police and public is, in my opionion, DEFINITELY having a negative effect. The Community Support Officers are intended to do the sort of thing you describe in Japan, as the Ward-based teams of "dedicated" police officers, steadily being introduced around the Met thanks to Ken LIvingstone (who has arranged additional funding). Also sounds like bits of most "Community Policing" systems used / tried in UK.
Sadly, to have the time to do this stuff you need far, far more officers than we have in the UK at present and / or less calls on their time (lots of foreign criminal justice systems have far less onerous evidential requirements than the UK - for every rule which says something must be recorded/secured/stored/disclosed/tested/viewed ... there are some more cop hours off the street. All these rulkes sound very good on their own, and all can be justified but the upshot is the "bureaucracy" which keeps cops off the street - they are NOT just writing / typing things for the love of it but to comply with various legal / evidential / procedural requirements none of which the public are likely to agree to remove.
phildwyer
17-08-2005, 18:41
Having been there and tried it, it REALLY, REALLY is difficult to try and persuade young officers from somewhere very unlike Brixton, surrounded all day and every day with violent criminals, bloodied victims, cynical lawyers; ineffective magistrates courts, alcoholics and drug addicts who should be in hospital / rehab; care in the community patients who are receiving precisely zero care; battalions of people who are only too quick to complain and slow to praise and all the rest of the inner city“s rich tapestry of life that it isn“t really a shit-hole. Sadly they never get chance to see / try the good things, rushing from call to call and living miles away.
I really do think we should find some way of getting police officers living in the communities they serve, though it won“t be easy (not least because of fears of reprisals, cf. Liverpool, Belfast, Glasgow ...) :(
I agree, there should be a rule that a certain percentage of police must live in the neighborhood where they work. The lack of such a rule causes huge problems in the US, where the suburban-dwelling police tend to view the inner cities as hostile territory to be occupied. When I lived on the Lower East Side in New York, I had a cop I met socially tell me that the area was populated entirely by "junkies and mental patients," and ask how I could possibly reside among such "scum." His attitude was much like that of US troops in Iraq: total incomprehension of the culture combined with low-level generalized hostility to the inhabitants and a vague desire to hurt and persecute them simply for being different from him. He wasn't a bad guy, just a regular Joe with no experience of or idea about blacks, Latinos or white bohemians. A couple of months living on Avenue C would have sorted him out.
JohnsonD
28-08-2005, 21:26
The police shouldnt let their personal opinions affect how they do their job. It's the sign of a good policeman if they avoid it.
If the police come from or live in the area themselves, then there's more likelihood of intimidation and corruption.
gaijingirl
28-08-2005, 22:04
Hendo... I'm sorry I only just saw this... your post happened just when I went on holiday and must have gotten buried...
That's fucking shit.. I haven't read the whole post but I will do tomorrow properly.... probably shouldn't say any more now as I've had a few drinks...
detective-boy
29-08-2005, 08:09
If the police come from or live in the area themselves, then there's more likelihood of intimidation and corruption.
I'm afraid that is a big (and I think unfair) indictment of the communities in some areas.
Whilst there will be some intimidation issues to overcome, at least in the first instance, I think they would be low-level and manageable and I would hope that the anticipated advantages - better understanding by the police and better acceptance by the (law abiding, vast majority) community - would mean that there would not be an environment in which such intimidation could thrive.
As for corruption, I do not agree at all. I do not see that that would be a significantly different situation to now and, again, the improved community-police relationship should mean that the motivations for corruption (on both sides) would reduce.
The loss of routine non-confrontational encounters between police and public is, in my opionion, DEFINITELY having a negative effect.
JUst as a half-remembered side note: there was a programme on the BBC a few years ago that mentioned some sort of research that said that the people most likely to have the highest opinion of cops were those who had least actual contact with them; and that the cops' popularity with the middle classes plummetted with the advent of drink-driving laws, when the m/cs started getting stopped/nicked by the cops in large numbers. If I could remember the slightest bit of information about the poll itself, that would be helpful...
detective-boy
29-08-2005, 08:44
There was a programme on the BBC a few years ago that mentioned some sort of research that said that the people most likely to have the highest opinion of cops were those who had least actual contact with them...
Don't have a reference myself either - but it was definitely carried out and that is what it found. And, in my experience, that is reality!
Louloubelle
29-08-2005, 17:38
sorry to hear this hendo
I got mugged right outside my home 4 years ago
It was very scary and I couldn't believe what had happened
I was mugged by a white guy who stepped out of a car and asked me for directions
he grabbed my bag and with me still caught up in the strap jumped into a car and his accomplice, an apparently pregnant woman, drove off
It pulled a strip of skin off my arm, but other than that I wasn't hurt. I could have been pulled along by the bag and killed.
The police actually caught the man (he'd been driving around on a crack binge mugging people and taking crack for 36 hours)
He asked the police to apologise to me
I did feel sorry for him, I was shaken up but not badly hurt, he ended up in prison and with his life in ruins
at the end of the day, you're you and you have more opportunities, more love and more good things in your life than these people have and your future looks so much brighter than theirs
I'm not making excuses for them or saying you should forgive them, just pointing out that it's better to be you than to be them
hope you feel better soon
loulou :)
gaijingirl
29-08-2005, 17:45
sorry to hear this hendo
I got mugged right outside my home 4 years ago
It was very scary and I couldn't believe what had happened
I was mugged by a white guy who stepped out of a car and asked me for directions
he grabbed my bag and with me still caught up in the strap jumped into a car and his accomplice, an apparently pregnant woman, drove off
It pulled a strip of skin off my arm, but other than that I wasn't hurt. I could have been pulled along by the bag and killed.
The police actually caught the man (he'd been driving around on a crack binge mugging people and taking crack for 36 hours)
He asked the police to apologise to me
I did feel sorry for him, I was shaken up but not badly hurt, he ended up in prison and with his life in ruins
at the end of the day, you're you and you have more opportunities, more love and more good things in your life than these people have and your future looks so much brighter than theirs
I'm not making excuses for them or saying you should forgive them, just pointing out that it's better to be you than to be them
hope you feel better soon
loulou :)
Almost exactly the same thing happened to a friend of mine in Brixton about 4 years ago... I wonder if you're the same person... :confused:
Sorry to hear about this Hendo.
They're using the good cop/bad cop routine with victims now?
Sorry - but that made me laugh. But tbh when I was a victim of crime the police approach was very aggressive. Like I'd caused it? Weird people.
Louloubelle
29-08-2005, 18:44
Almost exactly the same thing happened to a friend of mine in Brixton about 4 years ago... I wonder if you're the same person... :confused:
stocky white guy, 5'8" ish blonde, pierced eyebrow, wore a scarf round the lower part of his face
Like a fool I stood and waited for him to rob me while he adjusted his scarf, which was falling from his face :rolleyes:
because I saw a pregnant women in tears in the car I thought that they'd been having a lover's quarrel, and imagined that was why there was a funny vibe coming from him
this was in camden, but as they were in a car I suppose they could have been driving round london, I think it was January, it was bloody cold anyway
small world if it was the same guy
edited to add
he might have been the same person, but Im not IYKWIM :)
sorry to hear this hendo
hope you feel better soon
loulou :)
Thanks for all the lovely messages. It wasn't that bad but I wish the police had caught them.
The incident has definitely made me more nervous on the street, checking everyone out in case they decide to have a go.
Tonight I went out for a takeaway (Rising High on Railton Rd if you're wondering: very nice) and there were some guys on bikes in the middle of the street wheeling around, smoking dope, and shouting aggressively at people.
And I really wished I was somewhere else.
:(
Hendo, I'm really sorry to hear about your mugging and hope you're ok.
I live in Poets Cnr as do several of my mates - one has been mugged and had his car broken into on his street in the last month, and last night someone else was mugged outside his place.
2 streets away we were burgled in July, and one the same street a friend had a car broken into in the same week.
1 street away another friend had a bike stolen from her house and in Feb had a burgler came through her front window with an axe.
I'm glad to say that my experience resulted with helpful police, who, while they didn't give us false hope about getting our gear back, were sympathetic and professional.
What I'm worried about is the prevalence of crime in our neighbourhood and am interested to know if there are any neighbourhood watch groups out there, lobby groups or places we can get some help from in our area.
I'm at +++++ if anyone would rather contact me off list.
<I've removed your email or you'll get spammed to within an inch of your life...best thing is to get people to send you a private message. Mrs M>
What I'm worried about is the prevalence of crime in our neighbourhood and am interested to know if there are any neighbourhood watch groups out there, lobby groups or places we can get some help from in our area.
1. You can try your Local Area Committee, a grouping of Brixton ward councillors. They allow public input at their meetings:
Wednesday 7 Spetember 7:00 pm
Brixton Area Committee
Location: St Matthew's Tenants Hall, St Matthews Road, SW2
Status: Open to the public
Brixton Area Committee (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/exeres/9FEDDC45-3175-422C-8D0D-4E0BA5EB68D3.htm)
2. The Brixton Area Forum has a Crime Working Group that looks specifically at the issues. They don't have a website but if you contact the Town Centre Manager will give you the info.
Christine Sipidias
Interim Town Centre Manager
Tel: 020 7926 1097
csipidias@lambeth.gov.uk
3. The Community-Police Consultative Group is a borough wide body, but often has very local items brought up at its meetings, especially in respect of Brixton, given the problems in the town centre especially.
CPCG for Lambeth (http://www.lambethcpcg.org.uk)
{edited to add}..Is Poet's Corner not in Herne Hill Ward? If so, then you are in a 'Safer Neighbourhood' which has a dedicated team of police officers and CPSO's, but also a 'Community Panel' of local people who are meant to help set policing priorities for the Ward. I can't find anything on the web saying how you cantact them (Lambeth Borough Met Website (http://www.met.police.uk/lambeth/saferneighbourhoods.htm) thinks there are still only three Safer Neighbouhood Wards*) but I guess an enquiry to the borough police might give you a lead.
* There are now 8 - there is an ongoing discussion of Safer Neighbourhoods and their accessibilty in the May (http://www.downloads.lambethcpcg.org.uk/Minutes0505.pdf) and June (http://www.downloads.lambethcpcg.org.uk/Minutes0506.pdf) CPCG minutes
urbanspaceman
02-09-2005, 14:47
"...What I'm worried about is the prevalence of crime in our neighbourhood and am interested to know if there are any neighbourhood watch groups out there, lobby groups or places we can get some help from in our area..."
After a recent BAC meeting, Val Shawcross, the GLA member for Lambeth and Southwark seemed a bit surprised at how the Community Safety police officer had repeatedly dismissed story after story from members of the audience about their personal experiences of crime, and then walked out, after telling us that crime was falling.
Ironically, at that very moment, a woman was being stabbed in Tate Gradens. In the following ten days, a man was shot in throat in Windrush Square, and then another stabbed to death in St. Matthews Peace Gradens. This seems to have caused a flurry of police activity and Shawcross has been in touch since, asking whether things have have changed. It seems to me that most of my neighbours have also had brushes with crime recently, and that the situation - anecdotally - has detoriorated in the past few years.
I have no idea if the situation has improved or deteriorated recently in our immediate local area, and because the police are exempted from legislation governing freedom of information there may be no way to say for sure.
And according to some people they massage the figures by registering some types of crime as others by the use of technicalities.
The cost of my mugging is amazing. The keys being recut and my watch replaced has cost me £100 - the excess on my home contents insurance.
The ticketed Death Machine has had to be garaged and its locks totally replaced, another 100 quid excess, and a several hundred quid bill to the insurers.
It'll have to go back in again, because the computer controlling the airbag mechanism has been damaged in the process.
A monumental pain in the arse. :rolleyes:
urbanspaceman
02-09-2005, 15:20
I have found it difficult to get even the sketchiest of details of crimes that have happened, even if they were in the public realm, and witnessed by many bystanders. So I wrote to Superintendent Zinzan in July:
"Dear Superintendent Zinzan
At the most recent Brixton Area Committee meeting, I was given your email address by [name]. I have appended an email exchange with GLA member Val Shawcross about crime in the Tate Gardens/Windrush Square area, and I am writing to you about an issue that has arisen during these communications with her.
I wanted to get my facts straight when writing to Val Shawcross, and so I called Brixton Police Station (using the 7326 1212 number) to find out the crime number, date and time, location and brief details of two recent incidents (stabbing 13/7/05 and shooting 15/7/05) in Tate Gardens/Windrush Square.
In the stabbing case, after some perseverance, I was successful in getting these details. But in the shooting case I decided that it would be wiser to give up, as the police officer I was speaking to forcefully told me that there was no way he would give me any details, and then began to accuse me of wasting police time in a quite intimidating manner (no doubt you have a recording of this). But I later found that DC Danny Lynch had made a press appeal for information concerning the shooting case, which puts it firmly in the public domain.
In both cases, most of the police and civilian staff I dealt with reflexively adopted a position of refusing to give out details, citing variously data protection, human rights, confidentiality or operational considerations. They stated that the public has no right to know even the bare facts of an incident, and seemed to improvise policy as they went along to back up their beliefs.
A few people understood what I was asking for and why, and were extremely helpful.
Given the above, I would be grateful if you could elucidate these points:
are recorded crimes/incidents a matter of public record and thus in the public domain?
Is there a Metropolitan Police policy on restricting public knowledge of the facts or indeed the existence of a crime/incident?
I look forward to hearing from you, and appreciate that this may take some time, given current events,"
The message was acknowledged and a response promised, and that's the last I heard of it.
Could any Urbanites with legal understanding clarify this issue ?
If a crime is recorded by the police, is this information in the public domain ?
I have found that a perverse effect of the Freedom of Information Act is that the police now cite it automatically in response to a request for ANY information at all, leading to an overall reduction in freedom of information.
After a recent BAC meeting, Val Shawcross, the GLA member for Lambeth and Southwark seemed a bit surprised at how the Community Safety police officer had repeatedly dismissed story after story from members of the audience about their personal experiences of crime, and then walked out, after telling us that crime was falling.
It's fair to say that over the borough, over the long run crime has been fallen substantially (Monthly Crime Stats from April 2000 (http://www.downloads.lambethcpcg.org.uk/CrimeStatsMonthy0507.xls.pdf), but the picture can be very different locally. That said, when I joined Urban75 in 2002, it felt like there was a new 'I got mugged last night' thread every other day, many of them up Brixton Hill or in the area you refer to.
You can get some Ward level figures if you type your postcode in at the bottom of this page (http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/). Some boroughs (like Camden) make 'hot-spot' information available on the web.
The police do have to comply with the FoI, but there are exemptions. For details, see here (http://www.met.police.uk/foi/index.htm)
Sorry to hear of your grief, hendo.
You can get some Ward level figures if you type your postcode in at the bottom of this page (http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/). Some boroughs (like Camden) make 'hot-spot' information available on the web..
A 10.6% rise in 'robberies against the person' this year in Lambeth!
I challenge passing Met Chiefs, and I know of at least one who lurks here, to come on this thread and explain this massive increase.
lang rabbie
02-09-2005, 18:30
A 10.6% rise in 'robberies against the person' this year in Lambeth!
I challenge passing Met Chiefs, and I know of at least one who lurks here, to come on this thread and explain this massive increase.
If you pass your mouse over the ward map, the borough average conceals massive variations -down 0.2% in Stockwell (which is now below the borough average) but up 19.6% in Bishops (South Bank ), up 25.8% in Thurlow Park (leafy west Dulwich plus Tulse Hill station???) and up 35.9% in Knights Hill (the area south of West Norwood station) :confused:
detective-boy
03-09-2005, 11:04
I have no idea if the situation has improved or deteriorated recently in our immediate local area, and because the police are exempted from legislation governing freedom of information there may be no way to say for sure.
No, they are not exempted. It's just that as they deal with crimes and prosecutions the general exemptions (from releasing particular items of information) where criminal investigations or prosecutions may be prejudiced apply more than with most public authorities.
And according to some people they massage the figures by registering some types of crime as others by the use of technicalities.
Crime statistics of all types are prone to this sort of error. Many offences require "intent" so if no-one is arrested / interviewed how do you know if it was a crime or not? (e.g. A stone appears through your front window. If no-one saw it happen how do you know whether to recrd it as a crime (criminal damage) or not (an accident when kids were messing about)). The police over the last 20 years have been driven into removing any institutional massaging of the figures and I am fairly sure that there is no deliberate large-scale massaging any more. That said, for other structural reasons I still treat crime statistics with a HUGE pinch of salt.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics ... and then there are crime statistics!
detective-boy
03-09-2005, 11:17
If a crime is recorded by the police, is this information in the public domain ?
Yes and no.
In a depersonalised form, as part of overall statistics, yes.
In more detail if there is a specific operational reason (e.g. search for witnesses, to alert the public, to prevent further offences, etc.), yes.
In precise detail (e.g. crime numbers, names, descriptions of victims, sometimes exact locations (e.g. door numbers)) routinely, no.
Part of this is due to the Data Protection Act - details of what happened to you the victim is personal information and you are entitled to not have your business generally known about. Part is due to potential for fraud / further offences (e.g. identity theft, repeat victimisation, insurance fraud (misuse of crime numbers), etc.). Part is simply practical - to release accurate details (and appropriate updates as more becomes known) on hundreds and hundreds of cases is simply too time consuming.
Part of it is due to the fact that you cannot expect to ring a massive organisation and speak to a member of staff pretty much at random and expect them to be able to make a judgement on the rights and wrongs of releasing any information immediately. You would need to speak to the actual officer responsible for each specific incident and / or a manager of probably Chief Inspector or above level to get a decision and, even then, it may not be made immediately. Writing to the Chief Superintendent would be the most likely way of actually getting a meaningful response (eventually). They have a Citizens Charter type response target for letters (which is still 10 days I think) so sounds like Dave Zinzan needs a gentle reminder!!
Your request for crime numbers probably set alarm bells ringing - why would someone want or need that information other than the victim?
Depersonalised crime details are released in any number of forms locally to neighbourhood groups, local authority level groups, borough panels of various sorts, force-wide bodies, local and regional media, etc. etc. etc. Many are available on the internet with a bit of research on various police, local autority, Home Office and other websites.
detective-boy
03-09-2005, 11:21
I challenge passing Met Chiefs, and I know of at least one who lurks here, to come on this thread and explain this massive increase.
In some cases large percentage rises are a result of actual total crime numbers going down.
In most areas street crime (primarily robbery) has gone up since April due to the end of one year Home Office "Safer Streets" project funding which allowed many boroughs to run dedicated street crime units for the year April 2004-5 and which saw very significant reductions in crime in many areas. Most boroughs would have liked to have kept the units but could not find the funding out of their normal budgets once the project funding ended.
In some cases large percentage rises are a result of actual total crime numbers going down.
How can this be? A percentage rise in mugging numbers must surely be indicative of - an increase in muggings, no?
And point of order Mr Speaker, the police have six useful exemptions to the Freedom of Information legislation, including:
"information relating to planned police operations, including specific planned operations, and policies and procedures relating to operational activity;"
which is a pretty broad exemption, although it doesn't really include the crime figures.
How can this be? A percentage rise in mugging numbers must surely be indicative of - an increase in muggings, no?
And point of order Mr Speaker, the police have six useful exemptions to the Freedom of Information legislation, including:
"information relating to planned police operations, including specific planned operations, and policies and procedures relating to operational activity;"
which is a pretty broad exemption, although it doesn't really include the crime figures.
There's no way they'd be able to withold statistics under FOI... the only things they can really withold are those where it would impair specific operations. Any attempt to withold it would be fairly easily ruled on by the Ombudsman. My advice (as a professional complainer) is to rapidly complain if you don't get a quick decision - a lot of organisations drag their feet so need to be pushed into giving a decision in the first place.
detective-boy
03-09-2005, 15:05
How can this be? A percentage rise in mugging numbers must surely be indicative of - an increase in muggings, no?
There were 100 muggings last month. There have been 101 this month. That is one more mugging. It is a 1% increase.
There were 10 muggings last month. There have been 11 this month. That is one more mugging. It is a 10% increase.
There was 1 mugging last month. There have been 2 this month. That is one more mugging. It is a 50% increase.
Beware of the police / media / anyone else with an axe to grind selecting one or other format to make a more dramatic point to suit their purpose!
Stobart Stopper
03-09-2005, 15:25
Beware of the police / media / anyone else with an axe to grind selecting one or other format to make a more dramatic point to suit their purpose!
And beware of how the police try to get your crime categorised, if you get your arm yanked and your bag nicked they will try to put it down as a snatch when in fact it should be logged as robbery or robbery/assault.
The average person in the street doesn't know this and goes along with whatever the police say.
detective-boy
03-09-2005, 17:42
And beware of how the police try to get your crime categorised, if you get your arm yanked and your bag nicked they will try to put it down as a snatch when in fact it should be logged as robbery or robbery/assault.
The average person in the street doesn't know this and goes along with whatever the police say.
They will classify it as they wish (subject to the somewhat complex Home Office Guidelines), regardless of your wishes. If there is a theft from the person AND an assault then the guidelines will define what it needs to be recorded as (last time I knew it was just "Theft from the person" if the victim was the same person, with no additional crime of assault recorded, though that may have changed)
For your information a "mugging" (not a recognised legal term) may be classified as:
- Robbery - where the bag is stolen and force is used or threatened before, or at the time of, the theft AND in order to carry it out (e.g. you won't let go of the strap so they pull a knife and hold it at your throat so you let go and they get the bag)
- Theft (from the person) - the stealing of the bag, from the person of the victim. No specific assault involved, although there may be a limited amount of "collateral" force used (eg the pulling of your arm as the strap pulls off your shoulder and down your arm).
- Theft (from the person) AND Assault (of whatever grade, Common Assault, ABH, GBH) dependant on injury caused) if there are two seperate parts to the incident (e.g. your bag is snatched, you chase after and catch them and they then punch you in the mouth to make their getaway, the assault being after the theft and not in order to complete it).
It doesn't really have much effect because Theft from the person and Robbery classifications are both included in most calculations of street crime and it makes absolutely no difference to whether or not your crime gets investigated or prosecuted in any particular way.
Stobart Stopper
03-09-2005, 17:53
You know that's not true, if they can downgrade it they will. Got to keep the Home Office happy haven't they? :rolleyes:
Street Crime = Robbery +Snatch Thefts. It's been like that for ages, certainly back in the time when they had the Downing Street summits and all the rest. Last year, they went through a phase of just quoting robbery (persons and business's) but now they've gone back to Street Crime.
If you can be arsed, and download the data from here (http://www.met.police.uk/crimestatistics/index.htm) then you can do the sums yourself. And if you're really devoted, you can follow the trends over several months and find that Robbery and Snatches are pretty well correlated (for Lambeth at least), so which definition you use won't change your conclusion of which way it's trending.
Leighsw2
05-09-2005, 15:12
without wishing to get drawn into this ongoing argument about 'lies, damned lies and crime statistics', what about the evidence of our own eyes? I live in the heart of Brixton, just off Coldharbour, and I swear that in the last 6 months this area has become as scary as I can remember (and I've been here 15 years!) Half the time, my street seems to have become an outdoor crack house, even in broad daylight!
Seems to me that the July 7 bombings have had another consequence - playtime for crims as the police are occupied full-time fruitlessley searching for more bombers. It certainly feels that way in Brixton at the moment! :(
Mrs Magpie
05-09-2005, 15:21
I think it's a bit swings and roundabouts. When I first moved to the area in 1981 burglaries were rife. Every time I got home from work I half expected to find the door kicked in. I doubt this will show on statistics as people who weren't insured (the vast majority as it was hard or too expensive to obtain) didn't bother reporting them.
Leighsw2
05-09-2005, 15:31
I think it's a bit swings and roundabouts. When I first moved to the area in 1981 burglaries were rife. Every time I got home from work I half expected to find the door kicked in. I doubt this will show on statistics as people who weren't insured (the vast majority as it was hard or too expensive to obtain) didn't bother reporting them.
fair enough, but i do find crack heads pretty scary and there seem to be loads of them hovering around central brixton at the moment - it's like 'invasion of the zombies' out there!
I must ....
agree with Mrs M on this one. I have lived in a similar area (just off Loughborough Junction) for over twenty years and it doesn't seem that different.
In the old days we were burgled on a regular basis (about once every six months) and I had a van that was broken into so many times I used to leave the front doors unlocked in the end, as there was never anything in it worth as much as the £40 it cost me to replace the side window.
As Mrs M mentioned, insurance premiums went through the roof (if you could still get it- we couldn't) so most stuff went unreported. And returning to an earlier theme, the cops didn't give a shit if you did report anything. (even arson!)
john x
Mrs Magpie
05-09-2005, 15:56
A mate of mine got burgled three times in a fortnight!
Twice ....
in one day! :(
john x
IntoStella
05-09-2005, 17:04
And I thought getting mugged twice in four weeks was quite impressive. :(
Mrs Magpie
05-09-2005, 17:36
That wasn't in Brixton though was it, IS? Sorry if my memory seves me wrong.
detective-boy
05-09-2005, 17:43
Half the time, my street seems to have become an outdoor crack house, even in broad daylight!
The crime statistics won't show that - drug dealing is a crime which only finds it's way in to the statistics when an arrest is made 'cos there is no "victim" to report it usually (really stupid upper class twats who have been ripped off excepted, of course ... :rolleyes: ).
William of Walworth
05-09-2005, 19:49
I haven't been robbed for over twelve years ( :confused: ;) ) and I have no idea how I've avoided that, given that I live very inner city and often get drunker than strictly rational advice would recommend ...
I suppose I'm somewhat bigger looking/more streetwise looking than I really am ...
:(
VERY late to this thread, only just seen it today, mostly wanted to say BIG SYMPATHIES to hendo ....
Hope things are feeling better for you now! :)
fair enough, but i do find crack heads pretty scary and there seem to be loads of them hovering around central brixton at the moment - it's like 'invasion of the zombies' out there!
I've just been away for a month and it seems a bit better than last July... though it still seems a little worse than a year ago...
William of Walworth
05-09-2005, 19:57
Do you mean July 2004, or 2005??
Not 100% clear** from your post or in this particular context, Bob ...
**at least, not to a drunk ... :D
Leighsw2
09-09-2005, 21:57
I'm very clear about this - a year ago we never saw people smoking crack cocaine in our street, then at the end of last year they appeared in the alcoves at the side of the Ritzy Cinema, then in Feb/Mar this year they started breaking into our block and smoking in the hallway and now they're smoking brazenly in the street at all hours of the day and night. they don't even bother to hide anymore! seeing these wretches dressed in rags gathered in my street with their pathetic lighters flickering on and off as they desperately drag on the smoke from the rock cocaine is one of the most disturbing sights I've ever seen. no-one in their right mind wants this sort of stuff going on in their street! :eek:
Do you mean July 2004, or 2005??
Not 100% clear** from your post or in this particular context, Bob ...
**at least, not to a drunk ... :D
July 2005... :D
Thing is that because I live just on the edge of the very centre of Brixton and rarely walk along the stretch of Coldharbour lane from the Ritzy to Dogstar (because I almost always walk along Atlantic road & Electric Avenue)... so sometimes I'll be noticing stuff that is being displaced off that stretch of Coldharbour lane...
Dave Mullen
16-09-2005, 16:29
I was victim of an attack on Tuesday night in Jeffreys Road. (Stockwell) All of a sudden I was set about by 3 people punching me on the head next thing I knew I was on the ground being kicked on the face and body. THis is the second time in 4 years that I have been attacked the first time
was when I lived in Loughborough Road when I was shot on the head with a ball bearing gun.
I'm really getting fucked off with this as I don't wear expensive designer clothes or think that I look like particularly easy pickings. I know that the police are unliklely to catch the fuckers but at times like this I think what is it with these fucking cowardly bullies.
Needless to say neither time they got fuck all but my self esteeem is at rock bottom.
Shit DM, thats awful. Really sorry to hear this. These cunts are fucking cowardly scum. Don't let them make you feel bad. Hold your head up and go for a few pints with some mates tonight. ;)
gaijingirl
16-09-2005, 18:22
I'm sorry to hear your story. It's easier said than done.. but as my Mum always says, "don't let the bastards grind you down..."
William of Walworth
18-09-2005, 10:42
I was victim of an attack on Tuesday night in Jeffreys Road. (Stockwell) All of a sudden I was set about by 3 people punching me on the head next thing I knew I was on the ground being kicked on the face and body. THis is the second time in 4 years that I have been attacked the first time
was when I lived in Loughborough Road when I was shot on the head with a ball bearing gun.
I'm really getting fucked off with this as I don't wear expensive designer clothes or think that I look like particularly easy pickings. I know that the police are unliklely to catch the fuckers but at times like this I think what is it with these fucking cowardly bullies.
Needless to say neither time they got fuck all but my self esteeem is at rock bottom.
Bad news, horrible to read this. Big sympathies! :(
Dave Mullen
19-09-2005, 16:28
Cheers folks thanks for your support and sympathy. I spoke to the Investigating Officer at Kennington Police Station today and he told me that the CCTV on Jeffreys Road wasn't working at the time of the incident. Obviously he was pissed off about this as there were witnesses to the incident. He told me that street robberies have only a 7% clear up rate and I have also found out that street robberies in Stockwell/Clapham North are on the increase.
I took your advice Pie and had a few pints over the weekend. My girlfriend nagged me into wearing sunglasses to cover up the bruises/black eyes but after a while I ditched them. I've got nothing to hide.
IntoStella
19-09-2005, 17:03
My girlfriend nagged me into wearing sunglasses to cover up the bruises/black eyes but after a while I ditched them. I've got nothing to hide.
Mate, you looked as though you were wearing sunglasses even after you took them off!
I was victim of an attack on Tuesday night in Jeffreys Road. (Stockwell) All of a sudden I was set about by 3 people punching me on the head next thing I knew I was on the ground being kicked on the face and body.Fuck. Really sorry to hear that.
I was randomly attacked by two crack heads last year and know how shit it feels. Those guys are cunts. Cowardly pathetic fuckers.
Did they steal anything?
Sorry indeed to hear of what happened to you DM. 7% clear up rate, not impressive. :(
Cheers folks thanks for your support and sympathy. I spoke to the Investigating Officer at Kennington Police Station today and he told me that the CCTV on Jeffreys Road wasn't working at the time of the incident. Obviously he was pissed off about this as there were witnesses to the incident. He told me that street robberies have only a 7% clear up rate and I have also found out that street robberies in Stockwell/Clapham North are on the increase.
I took your advice Pie and had a few pints over the weekend. My girlfriend nagged me into wearing sunglasses to cover up the bruises/black eyes but after a while I ditched them. I've got nothing to hide.
You're a good example Dave of not letting the scum get to you!
Sorry to hear about that... :(
Dave Mullen
23-09-2005, 16:49
Fuck. Really sorry to hear that.
I was randomly attacked by two crack heads last year and know how shit it feels. Those guys are cunts. Cowardly pathetic fuckers.
Did they steal anything?
I was on a 24 hour blood pressure monitor and they got that but they didn't get my cash or my phone. Wankers. Like to have seen their faces when they found out that it wasn't any use to them.
I console myself with the thought that at least one of them will quite likely end up on a slab. Live by the sword and all that.
Dave Mullen
23-09-2005, 16:57
Sorry indeed to hear of what happened to you DM. 7% clear up rate, not impressive. :(
I know what you mean but from what plod told me the other day its very difficult to secure a conviction in crimes of that nature.
In my case I got the fuck kicked out of me by 3 black geezers wearing hoods. The witnesses saw them from behind running away so getting a description of the assailants is not very easy. Nevertheless they will probably end up doing serious time for something or they'll end up on a slab.
Dave Mullen
23-09-2005, 17:01
Mate, you looked as though you were wearing sunglasses even after you took them off!
I wasturned away from the dogstar last night the bloke's reasoning being that he thought I looked pissed. That's one place that wont be getting my custom again.
I wasn't bohtered but my missus kicked off on them.
IntoStella
23-09-2005, 17:48
I wasn't bohtered but my missus kicked off on them. You don't say! :D :D
I know what you mean but from what plod told me the other day its very difficult to secure a conviction in crimes of that nature. Even harder when the fucking police don't bother to show up in over 15 minutes when you're standing with the violent cunts in sight and a willing eye witness sat next to you.
dogmatique
23-09-2005, 18:33
was when I lived in Loughborough Road when I was shot on the head with a ball bearing gun.
Crikey! That was you!
I remember that vividly - I'd just moved from Loughbrough Junction to Herne Hill, and thought, Christ, I'm glad I'm away from there. Then got mugged about a day later myself. :rolleyes:
I remember reading about that in the Standard and being really shocked - I mean, you didn't know it was a BB gun at the time, did you?
Mrs Magpie
23-09-2005, 21:13
What an awful thing to happen DM :( I do hope you fully recover quickly.
Was the gun guy the one with a Brocock that was throwing poses and firing all over the place about three or so years ago? I followed him at a discreet distance round the Loughborough Estate giving his location to the police as he moved around but stressing it wasn't a real gun so that he didn't get shot dead. A local copper brought him down with a rugby tackle. He pleaded guilty at his trial so I didn't have to go and give evidence which was a relief.
Dave Mullen
25-09-2005, 15:17
What an awful thing to happen DM :( I do hope you fully recover quickly.
Was the gun guy the one with a Brocock that was throwing poses and firing all over the place about three or so years ago? I followed him at a discreet distance round the Loughborough Estate giving his location to the police as he moved around but stressing it wasn't a real gun so that he didn't get shot dead. A local copper brought him down with a rugby tackle. He pleaded guilty at his trial so I didn't have to go and give evidence which was a relief.
I don't think it was him cause the incident on Loughborough Rd. happened in 2001.
As with the other night it was a gang of 3 for some reason they always operate in gangs of at least 2 or 3. Hopefully they will get nicked for something else.
Dave Mullen
25-09-2005, 15:19
Crikey! That was you!
I remember that vividly - I'd just moved from Loughbrough Junction to Herne Hill, and thought, Christ, I'm glad I'm away from there. Then got mugged about a day later myself. :rolleyes:
I remember reading about that in the Standard and being really shocked - I mean, you didn't know it was a BB gun at the time, did you?
Initially I thought it was a cap gun cause it made a similar sound. It was later in the hospital that I found out it was a BB gun. Those fuckers never got caught either.
As with the other night it was a gang of 3 for some reason they always operate in gangs of at least 2 or 3.
Probably to demonstrate to the world their fearless bravery.
Fuck, they must some balls to only attack single people with only 2 or 3 mates.
Dave Mullen
28-09-2005, 16:08
I know I'm making a stereotypical assumption here but I also think that the electronically generated noise they laughingly call music has an influence here. For example they go on about "respect" which has nothing to do with respect but everything to do with intimidation and bullying.
Although the type of music in question does not directly advocate robbing I think that a lot of its weak minded listeners probably think that the lyrics which advocate taking in society but not giving anything justify their actions.
Shame really because in the early years hip hop was seen as a positive force in the community rather than a force of division.
Dunno Dave, I just think they're cowardly bastards full stop!
Dave Mullen
28-09-2005, 16:47
I know but cowards usually need some justification for their behaviour. They'll get theirs in the end. One will probably do something which his associate regards as being dissed and end up paying the price. As I said earlier those that live by the sword and all that.
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