View Full Version : July 2005 London bomb blasts: UPDATES AND NEWS ONLY - NO DISCUSSION
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Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 16:34
<silly words deleted by editor>
The man reported missing in the press conference was from Leeds wasn't he?
And this guy went missing from Finsbury Park
yes, i'm not suggesting that I think he had anything to do with it. i'm suggesting that that is what stobart finds 'suspicious' on the webpage she linked to.
<silly words deleted by editor>
i think you are wrong and what's more i think it's rather offensive to look at an asian guy and immediately think it must be him.
if i was that lad's relatives i would want to fucking punch you frankly.
<silly words deleted by editor>
You could indeed. Remember that the police are talking about four people being seen on video arriving at King's Cross mainline (clearly intended implication: they'd come from Leeds and they were the bombers).
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 16:42
<silly words deleted by editor>
what, sas left because he took offense at me disagreeing with you about your ideas about victims of the bombs?! :p
no seriously, has he left? :confused:
It was the 3 weeks thing that made me suspicious actually.
Be honest though, if the bloke wasn't of Asian appearance you wouldn't have been suspicious would you?
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 16:45
<silly words deleted by editor>
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 16:47
<silly words deleted by editor>
MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8507035/)He added that at least three of the four men were from West Yorkshire, the county where Leeds is located.
Police and Army troops were led to six properties in Leeds after identifying a suspected bomber who died in the bus bombing, sources told the Press Association, a British news service. Scotland Yard refused to confirm the claims.
Earlier reports had quoted a witness on the bus who said he saw an “agitated” olive-skinned man rummaging in a backpack moments before the explosion.
The Leeds homes were searched and found to be unoccupied.
Several neighbors told NBC News that the area had been home to several young Pakistani men who had not been seen since before the bombings Thursday. The father of one man has been interviewed by police, NBC reported.
It was the 3 weeks thing that made me suspicious actually.
Now get back down out of your trees for god's sake. This is why Sas left isn't it?
So... My bf is of distinctly asian descent. He's also Muslim. And he recently became British. And I suppoe if he were on that page you would be saying the same thing... :rolleyes: FFS, some people...
Phototropic
12-07-2005, 17:44
Jesus stobbart you really are a bit of a cow aren't you. I was reading stuff which his father said. He was just a lad coming over here to do a job. 19 he was. That's all. Why don't you get all suspicious about the Asian girl 'ey? There is guy there who looks North African. What about him?
You're no better than those attacking the mosques.
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 17:49
OK I admit I am wrong, it was a bad to post any of it, I will get Editor to take it down.
(Make sure you cut and paste it so you can stab me in the back with it at a later date though.)
I fucked up, ok. I'm sorry.
Phototropic
12-07-2005, 17:53
Good. I mean Christ even if by some chance you were right I still wouldn't see that as in any way a vindication for such prejudice.
Reminds of the line from a song "But being Irish means you´re guilty, so we´re guilty one and all"
(Make sure you cut and paste it so you can stab me in the back with it at a later date though.)
i don't think anyone would do that, stobes :( i hope not anyway. you've taken it back, that's good enough for me, let's forget it eh.
<shakes stobart's hand in manly fashion>
I've deleted some of Stobs posts by requests.
Normally I couldn't be arsed because it takes ages but given the sensitivity and importance of the subject I've made the effort.
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 19:17
Thanks. And sorry for doing it.
OK I admit I am wrong, it was a bad to post any of it, I will get Editor to take it down.
(Make sure you cut and paste it so you can stab me in the back with it at a later date though.)
I fucked up, ok. I'm sorry.
Nice to see some people haven't gone off their heads... Manly handshake and backslap from me too... :)
Stobart Stopper
12-07-2005, 20:18
There was an artcle in the paper on Sunday I think, about the tube train driver. He said that there was a bloke, a homeless man who spends all day riding the tube if it's cold or raining. He saw him helping the badly injured people in his carriage. I wonder who he is. And if he is ok.
Badger Kitten
13-07-2005, 08:42
Finsbury Park station closed.
Noit sure why but the person who just called me said ' They said to me, you can imagine why'.
I can imagine why, but I can imagine lots of reasons why.
A. Overcrowding ( like yesterday).
B. Unattended bag ( like yesterday).
C. Train/signal technical problem ( like lots of days).
D. Bomb
E. Bomb scare.
I hope it is not D.
They just exploded something near Highgate Studios. Still haven't been evacuated yet. :( Still a lovely day outside...
gunneradt
13-07-2005, 10:09
The unattended bag thing really pisses me off. When will people learn to hold on to the bloody things - it's not that hard for goodness sake.
gunner
Finsbury Park station closed.
Noit sure why but the person who just called me said ' They said to me, you can imagine why'.
I can imagine why, but I can imagine lots of reasons why.
A. Overcrowding ( like yesterday).
B. Unattended bag ( like yesterday).
C. Train/signal technical problem ( like lots of days).
D. Bomb
E. Bomb scare.
I hope it is not D.
My train arrived at Finsbury Park at 9:10 and I jumped straight on the tube, that was lucky. Hopefully it's just a scare.
SubZeroCat
13-07-2005, 11:58
The unattended bag thing really pisses me off. When will people learn to hold on to the bloody things - it's not that hard for goodness sake.
gunner
Yep and I keep seeing stupid, careless people (mostly teenagers) dumping rubbish on the tube without a second thought. It's bloody ridiculous!
The unattended bag thing really pisses me off. When will people learn to hold on to the bloody things - it's not that hard for goodness sake.
FFS yes...! Held up ten minutes by a gormless tourist at Camden Town this morning becuase they wandered off down the carriage. They left a large bag propped up by the doors. :rolleyes:
gunneradt
13-07-2005, 13:07
we're all suffering from paranoia. Has anyone else started looking who they're sitting next to or opposite and what they're carrying?
gunner
Any unattended bag should be destroyed' no ifs or buts.
maximilian ping
13-07-2005, 13:41
Finsbury Park station closed.
Noit sure why but the person who just called me said ' They said to me, you can imagine why'.
I can imagine why, but I can imagine lots of reasons why.
A. Overcrowding ( like yesterday).
B. Unattended bag ( like yesterday).
C. Train/signal technical problem ( like lots of days).
D. Bomb
E. Bomb scare.
I hope it is not D.
chaos. i got to finsbury park station at 9.30 (lazy git) and the police had cordoned off the main entrance i think cos of unattended bag at bus stop. went to wagn platform. Then there was an announcement saying no tubes/trains stopping at all in finsbury park cos security alert. Then a train did stop, altho the announcer was trying to tell the driver to carry on and not pick anyone up. but he opened the doors, we were allowed on, but no-one was allowed off. no-one had a clue what was going on.
gunneradt
13-07-2005, 14:50
and now Bishopsgate has been closed due to a suspect package on a bus apparently.
gunner
BBC ticker: "Home Office Denies French Reports Bombers Were Arrested in 2004"
kyser_soze
13-07-2005, 15:57
'London crippled by empty bags left lying around'
London was bought to a standstill yesterday by countless eejits for whom the phrase 'Don't leave bags unattended' is beyond their ken.
The new was greeted with outrage by an Al-Quaida spokesman:
'We spent YEARS planning that bombing mission and the trains were running as normal 8 hours later. A bunch of fools leave some bags around and have crippled the capital. Life's just not fair'
The Al-Q spokesman then ran off, leaving a bag with a cheap alarm clock ticking, resulting in the forced evacuation of the entire population of Pontypridd where the interview took place.
Chris Sadhuta
13-07-2005, 20:08
quack quack quack quackery
<SNIP>
PS - I'm brand new to this forum, so if there is a better place to post this so that many people can read it, please feel free to shift it to the appropriate place. Thanks!
< Mrs M can think of plenty of places...Bin. Poubelle. Mülleimer. Basura. >
past caring
13-07-2005, 21:00
PS - I'm brand new to this forum, so if there is a better place to post this so that many people can read it, please feel free to shift it to the appropriate place. Thanks!
Smells highly of spam to me, I must admit.
Odds on Chris actually running "workshops" in this mumbo-jumbo?
gunneradt
13-07-2005, 21:35
Im glad you said it - I got lost with cranial/sacral bit.
gunner
Smells highly of spam to me, I must admit.
Odds on Chris actually running "workshops" in this mumbo-jumbo?
High.
And the mumbo-jumbo meter is flicking over into the red zone, too... isn't this C/S stuff something that was expelled from something that was expelled from chiropracty for being too kooky?
Chris Sadhuta
13-07-2005, 23:32
My childhood friend Nina Bell died on 9/11 and I wasn't able to help at all. I thought this post would help people who live in London. I haven't visited England since 1987. The last time I lived there was as a child in 1974 and I still have fond memories of traveling throughout England and London. I receive no money, no endorsements, no workshops, no clients, nothing from posting this. These are actual clinical techniques with proven results to help people with trauma, but this seems to be the wrong forum. My blessings on people who are still trying to find a way to deal with the trauma.
past caring
14-07-2005, 05:51
My blessings on people who are still trying to find a way to deal with the trauma.
Your "blessings"? Who are you - the fucking pope?
I'm sure your blessings will be a great comfort to them.
KeyboardJockey
14-07-2005, 07:11
Your "blessings"? Who are you - the fucking pope?
I'm sure your blessings will be a great comfort to them.
Anyone can bless anyone else you don't have to be part of an organised religion or have an offical position therein. I have my doubts about some alternative therapies but if people want to bless others what's the problem?
past caring
14-07-2005, 07:15
I'd have kept me mouth shut if his first post (now edited by Mrs M) wasn't a clear piece of coat-trailing for his own particular band of mumbo-jumbo. Sorry - maybe I'll just stop here.
My childhood friend Nina Bell died on 9/11 and I wasn't able to help at all. I thought this post would help people who live in London. I haven't visited England since 1987. The last time I lived there was as a child in 1974 and I still have fond memories of traveling throughout England and London.
Sorry to hear your loss over 11/9 but this is a thread dealing with an act of terrorism in London, England which you have no ties with. Thanks for telling me what to feel. :rolleyes:
KeyboardJockey
14-07-2005, 07:51
I'd have kept me mouth shut if his first post (now edited by Mrs M) wasn't a clear piece of coat-trailing for his own particular band of mumbo-jumbo. Sorry - maybe I'll just stop here.
Fair enough if they were spamming their particular belief in an opportunistic way I can see your point.
Mrs Magpie
14-07-2005, 08:37
Fair enough if they were spamming their particular belief in an opportunistic way I can see your point. That was my take on it. I found it offensive in the extreme.
Loads of info here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1693797,00.html
They reckon they have identified the mastermind, who slipped out of the country the day before, fourth bomber has just been identified as a British-born guy of Jamaican origin (!?), possible fifth bomber still out there and a sixth and seventh possible support members in the cell.
They're working quickly here it seems.
Loads of info here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1693797,00.html
They reckon they have identified the mastermind, who slipped out of the country the day before, fourth bomber has just been identified as a British-born guy of Jamaican origin (!?), possible fifth bomber still out there and a sixth and seventh possible support members in the cell.
They're working quickly here it seems.
Cheers for the link. And yes, I'm quite surprised how quickly the bombers were identified, their movements tracked and the base of operations (the house in Leeds) was located. And now this.
Mrs Magpie
14-07-2005, 13:16
Radio 4 gave the fourth alleged bomber as Lyndsey Germain, but some news sites say Lyndsey Germail.
2stepfan2
14-07-2005, 13:38
Any news on the Victoria line bombscare at Seven Sisters today? Been scanning but seem nowt.
They closed the rail as well as the tube and chaos ensued. Took me three hours to get to work.
kyser_soze
14-07-2005, 13:40
Can I just ask everyone in London to make sure that ANY bags, packages, envelopes...in fact ANYTHING they are wearing or carrying is GLUED or sugically implanted cos I'm SICK of having to leave beers and having journeys delayed by IDIOTS.
Minnie_the_Minx
14-07-2005, 13:49
Any news on the Victoria line bombscare at Seven Sisters today? Been scanning but seem nowt.
They closed the rail as well as the tube and chaos ensued. Took me three hours to get to work.
I thought that was caused by a defective train? :confused:
GarfieldLeChat
14-07-2005, 14:00
Any news on the Victoria line bombscare at Seven Sisters today? Been scanning but seem nowt.
They closed the rail as well as the tube and chaos ensued. Took me three hours to get to work.
ermt here was fuck all scare at seven sisters today ... i used it fine there was a defective trian which lead to staiton over crowding at finsbury park which meant they closed it for a bit...
try not to jump to conclusions remember when the tannoy on the vicky line says services are opperating normally it means the trains are defective will break down get stuck in tunnels and not stop at stations randomly, oh and you will be delayed... this is normal service for the vicky line...
kyser_soze
14-07-2005, 14:09
Exactly - peeps have to develop a 'normal LU service' filter before jumping to any conclusions about alerts and bombs and what have you...
Police are about to release CCTV images of one of the bombers with his backpack on shortly before he went off somewhere to explode.
GarfieldLeChat
14-07-2005, 15:53
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41304000/jpg/_41304879_hussaincctv_split_pa203.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683555.stm
images released
Kid_Eternity
14-07-2005, 18:35
Anyone hear of this thing about Lindsey Germain being mentioned within the context of these bombers? Channel 4 news was just on and her name was mentioned in a odd way regarding them...
* Mohammad Sidique Khan: Aged 30, from Beeston, Leeds, recently moved to Dewsbury, married with baby. ID found at Edgware Road blast site.
* Hasib Mir Hussain(confirmed): Aged 18, lived Holbeck, Leeds. Reported missing on day of bombings. Said to have turned very religious two years ago. ID found in No 30 bus.
* Shehzad Tanweer(confirmed): Aged 22, born Bradford, lived Beeston, Leeds. Studied religion in Pakistan. Forensic evidence linking him to Aldgate blast.
* Lindsey Germaine: Jamaican-born man who lived in Buckinghamshire.
* Police are hunting for a fifth man who they believe masterminded the attacks. It is believed he has left Britain
* A sixth man, an Egyptian chemistry student who has disappeared from his house in Leeds, is also being sought
from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683555.stm
(Different Lindsey Germain Kid_Eternity, not the SWP one)
Chemistry student Magdi al-Nasher arrested in Cairo. Police investigating London bombings searching a flat in Leeds linked to him.
BBC News Alerts
Shit this is moving quickly!!
KeyboardJockey
15-07-2005, 12:08
What I'm wondering is if this is moving so quickly how much info did the Thames House actually have before the event and could it have been prevented?
exosculate
15-07-2005, 12:11
What I'm wondering is if this is moving so quickly how much info did the Thames House actually have before the event and could it have been prevented?
If there is any sort of genuine conspiracy theory around these events - that is it - as is the case with 11/9.
KeyboardJockey
15-07-2005, 12:15
If there is any sort of genuine conspiracy theory around these events - that is it - as is the case with 11/9.
I'm not trying to encourage any tinfoil hattery but they do seem to be working remarkably fast when compared to how the IRA bombers were tracked in the 80's or even in the case of the Omagh bomb.
Maybe they had suspicions that something was going to happen but not where or when.
exosculate
15-07-2005, 12:17
I'm not trying to encourage any tinfoil hattery but they do seem to be working remarkably fast when compared to how the IRA bombers were tracked in the 80's or even in the case of the Omagh bomb.
Maybe they had suspicions that something was going to happen but not where or when.
No nor am I - but I am suspicious of what my be termed 'prior knowledge' to some degree.
I'm not trying to encourage any tinfoil hattery but they do seem to be working remarkably fast when compared to how the IRA bombers were tracked in the 80's or even in the case of the Omagh bomb.
I imagine the difference is London is plastered with CCTV cameras these days - I read somewhere detectives pored over about 5,000 CCTV tapes so managed to track the terrorists' movements back. London has more CCTV than any city in the world.
gunneradt
15-07-2005, 12:20
Im not so sure. I think the terrorists (refuse to call them bombers) left their details on the trains deliberately so that was the main lead. From there, most of the other info has probably been found on computers/mobile phones at the terrorists' houses.
gunner
KeyboardJockey
15-07-2005, 12:23
Im not so sure. I think the terrorists (refuse to call them bombers) left their details on the trains deliberately so that was the main lead. From there, most of the other info has probably been found on computers/mobile phones at the terrorists' houses.
gunner
Good point.
An ex-MI5 agent was asked 'What will happen next?' last week on on eof the news programs, one of the things she said was that they would pull in undercover operatives to de-brief and put the info together. This, with the ID from the bombers must have helped the intelligence jigsaw.
What I'm wondering is if this is moving so quickly how much info did the Thames House actually have before the event and could it have been prevented?
Put it this way: the account presented makes sense and doesn't contradict the laws of physics.
07/07 a.m. Bombs go off
07/07 p.m. One person reported missing, on a trip to London with friends, by parents; things are said that raise suspicions, even if only through an officer's preconceptions abt Muslims...
07/07 p.m. some IDs likely found as early as this
08/07 Start interviewing shocked and horrified friends, family, employers: who did these people hang out with?
12/07 Enough of a picture of the network has emerged to search houses
12/07 approx. One person they hung out with is Egyptian, a chemistry PhD and missing. Strongly encourage the Cairo police to find any people matching that description and recently come back from Yorkshire...
15/07 p.m. They find one
It's not as if there's any proof presented that said Egyptian was actually involved, or even the right Egyptian if there was one involved.
I take it as a given that the police had leads earlier than they announced them - it'd be a first if this time they'd decided not to tip of possible accomplices.
So there's no need to raise the question of foreknowledge.
exosculate
15-07-2005, 12:32
So there's no need to raise the question of foreknowledge.
Theres no reason not to raise it either
The chronology doesn't show anything.
Im not so sure. I think the terrorists (refuse to call them bombers) left their details on the trains deliberately so that was the main lead. From there, most of the other info has probably been found on computers/mobile phones at the terrorists' houses.
gunner
That was, of course another huge lead. But the CCTV was important too.
exosculate
15-07-2005, 12:36
That was, of course another huge lead. But the CCTV was important too.
I would say the enormous amounts of money spent by MI5/MI6 might have provided intelligence too.
kyser_soze
15-07-2005, 12:36
Quick ?
Was the CCTV analysed by humans or was there some kind of recognition software running as well (not to ID them but to look for peeps appearing across multiple cameras who would track as being possible suspects)?
Theres no reason not to raise it either
Apart from giving aid and comfort to tinfoilhattery.
The chronology doesn't show anything.
Put it this way: the account presented makes sense and doesn't contradict the laws of physics.
See? No extra hypothesis is required.
Give me something like records of the suspects being arrested and let go, then you'll have something to explain.
I'm sure there are people (they're called journalists) working on this now.
Edited to add: Please be clear that I'm not defending Box 500. They exist to do nasty things (nasty-ish, relative to this) and we can be sure that if there were foreknowledge they'd do their damnedest to cover it up. But the problem with cover-ups (and lies in general) is that constructing an entirely consistent lie that leaves no documented traces is as much work as constructing an entire real world.
exosculate
15-07-2005, 12:58
Apart from giving aid and comfort to tinfoilhattery.
See? No extra hypothesis is required.
Give me something like records of the suspects being arrested and let go, then you'll have something to explain.
I'm sure there are people (they're called journalists) working on this now.
Edited to add: Please be clear that I'm not defending Box 500. They exist to do nasty things (nasty-ish, relative to this) and we can be sure that if there were foreknowledge they'd do their damnedest to cover it up. But the problem with cover-ups (and lies in general) is that constructing an entirely consistent lie that leaves no documented traces is as much work as constructing an entire real world.
Its early days mate - keeping an open mind is the order of the day.
Kid_Eternity
15-07-2005, 12:59
* Mohammad Sidique Khan: Aged 30, from Beeston, Leeds, recently moved to Dewsbury, married with baby. ID found at Edgware Road blast site.
* Hasib Mir Hussain(confirmed): Aged 18, lived Holbeck, Leeds. Reported missing on day of bombings. Said to have turned very religious two years ago. ID found in No 30 bus.
* Shehzad Tanweer(confirmed): Aged 22, born Bradford, lived Beeston, Leeds. Studied religion in Pakistan. Forensic evidence linking him to Aldgate blast.
* Lindsey Germaine: Jamaican-born man who lived in Buckinghamshire.
* Police are hunting for a fifth man who they believe masterminded the attacks. It is believed he has left Britain
* A sixth man, an Egyptian chemistry student who has disappeared from his house in Leeds, is also being sought
from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683555.stm
(Different Lindsey Germain Kid_Eternity, not the SWP one)
Yeah I heard later, just caught it briefly on Ch4 news while on my way out, was a very strange few minutes until someone clarified that one!
detective-boy
16-07-2005, 12:19
The CCTV would be viewed manually. There is some facial recognition software available but it relies on knowing which face it is looking for in the first place so any suspects must be well-known and photographed. It is also notoriously unreliable.
Manual CCTV viewing takes forever - every hour of footage takes at least 90-120 person minutes to view (constant pauses to check unclear/fleeting glimpses, 5 min breaks every 20-30 mins or operator concentration becomes too unreliable ...). It also requires a viewing station for each operator, for each camera (and most central london tube stations have complex multiplex systems which digitally record every camera continuously in real-time) if it is to be done simultaneously. And it is pointless watching CCTV footage until you know what you are looking for ...
I think it was only quick here because it was possible to set (guess?) some parameters (time / location) from what had happened and these turned out to be right. The suspects, when viewed also seem to have jumped out of the screen at the operators (group of four, large rucksacks, then splitting up ...)
It is also very easy to work out what went on when you have the benefit of hindsight and you KNOW the relevance of one or more individuals / addresses / numbers / etc. It would not surprise me if such reactive review of intelligence / surveillance records threw up previous sightings / contacts which now have great significance.
Prior to the bombings, however, they would have been just one of millions of sightings / associations / contacts and, unless the security forces have psychic powers, there would be nothing to highlight them as of particular relevance / importance.
Louloubelle
16-07-2005, 12:52
I think that fact that the bombers immediate families had no idea what was going on, reported them missing on Thursday and would have provided police with photos must have speeded up the investigation considerably
detective-boy
16-07-2005, 15:06
I'm not trying to encourage any tinfoil hattery but they do seem to be working remarkably fast ...
Maybe, just maybe, it's good police work - like competent, thorough scene management and examination, the stuff which caused the delays in identifying the victims and which the media were moaning about for the first four or five days of the investigation.
I wonder about some people:
No result / Delays = Police/security services incompetence
Arrests / Identification of suspects / Speedy outcome = Police/security services must have had prior knowledge / be part of some conspiracy
I still find it hard to believe that they voluntarily blew themselves up in their bid to commit an atrocity, especially after hearing a little about their backgrounds. I mean a fucking school teacher/mentor, another man with a kid and another on the way! I can't make any sense of it.
FridgeMagnet
16-07-2005, 23:31
I think this thread is drifting a tad discussion-wards.
Did anyone else hear BadgerKitten on Broadcasting House on R4 just now?
passenger
17-07-2005, 09:41
Did anyone else hear BadgerKitten on Broadcasting House on R4 just now?
radio 4 :eek:
Did anyone else hear BadgerKitten on Broadcasting House on R4 just now?
Missed it but it's on "Listen again" on the Radio4 website, here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/atoz/index.shtml#b
Just listened to her via the above link ^ Very moving.
Kid_Eternity
19-07-2005, 10:51
Link (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/europe/rift.php)
Britain's era of good will with Europe lasted 48 hours — all because of the French. After the July 7 terrorist attacks in London, Scotland Yard brought together law enforcement and intelligence officials from two dozen European countries and the United States, sharing crucial intelligence and pleading for help in tracking down the bombers. But the continentwide spirit of cooperation was shattered when Christophe Chaboud, France's new antiterrorism coordinator, broke the cardinal rule of the club. He leaked. In an interview with the French newspaper Le Monde that appeared on newsstands on July 11 — two days after the exceptionally open briefing — Chaboud announced that he knew ''the nature of the explosives'' used in the London bombings. It ''appears to be military, which is very worrisome,'' he said, adding: ''We're more used to cells making homemade explosives from chemical substances."
Link (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/europe/rift.php)
Yabbut, that's an article in the International Herald Tribune about (or stirring up) Brit/French spats - the quote is one example, alongside Chirac's review of British food and others.
Unless the Brit newspapers have been making things up totally, all sorts of British police and intelligence personnel have been leaking wildly - and equally inaccurately - as well; and they were happy to talk to French sources too.
For example: the leak that timers were found and the leak that timers have not been found. One is wrong. Both appear to have come from British sources. Both are "leaks" at least in the sense that they were not issued as authorised statements by the Met as an organisation.
detective-boy
19-07-2005, 11:12
Link (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/europe/rift.php)
Nice quote you selected. But what is your point?
(Just for the information of anyone who chooses not to follow the link, the very next sentence goes on to read "But Chaboud did not stop with his assessment of the explosives and their origins, which, it turned out, were wrong. My emphasis )
kyser_soze
19-07-2005, 11:20
I still find it hard to believe that they voluntarily blew themselves up in their bid to commit an atrocity, especially after hearing a little about their backgrounds. I mean a fucking school teacher/mentor, another man with a kid and another on the way! I can't make any sense of it.
OK, try this as a thought experiment.
You have to start by putting your head into a place where God doesn't just exist, but in order to please Him you have to pray every day facing a holy city; you truly and utterly believe that His word is law, that the religious text you follow is divine, and that all competing ideas - not just religions, but ideas - are against God and therefore a sin. Repeat this until it forms a core part of your day-to-day existance.
Then combine this with learning a radicalised variant of your faith - one that teaches that it's OK to kill enemies of God regardless of whether they are civilan or not - indeed, that view doesn't come into it since they are all inifidels/heathens who don't follow your faith and as such are less than human. You are then told that by killing you are fighting on behalf of your God and will be rewarded in the afterlife for doing so.
Have you ever really had deep religious faith where it defines your perception of the world? If you haven't you will find it hard to understand why someone with a good job, wife, kids etc would sacrifice it all for their faith - and expect their family to understand as well.
One of the hardest things for secular or even Xtians in somewhere like Western Europe to understand is religious commitment at that level - your denial is a completely understandable reaction.
Donna Ferentes
19-07-2005, 11:25
I think this thread is drifting a tad discussion-wards.Drifting at battle speed, I'd say.
detective-boy
19-07-2005, 11:29
Drifting at battle speed, I'd say.
Now, if Justiin were reading this, he'd say something pithy like ....
Surely you speed at "battle speed", not drift :rolleyes:
Who was it posted by ..... aaahhh ..... :D
Kid_Eternity
19-07-2005, 11:52
Nice quote you selected. But what is your point?
(Just for the information of anyone who chooses not to follow the link, the very next sentence goes on to read "But Chaboud did not stop with his assessment of the explosives and their origins, which, it turned out, were wrong. My emphasis )
I simply c+ped the first couple of paragraphs if you notice.
Donna Ferentes
19-07-2005, 11:53
Now, if Justiin were reading this, he'd say something pithy like ....
Surely you speed at "battle speed", not drift :rolleyes:
Who was it posted by ..... aaahhh ..... :DIt's irony, Einstein.
Paulie Tandoori
07-07-2008, 10:13
Seems so long ago in some ways, yet remembering back now, my stomach feels hollow and the memory of the fear and confusion so palpable still.
Schmetterling
07-07-2008, 10:22
And, do you know, the fourth poster on the current page is Loki. Gave me the shivers as well.
It also seems that it was much longer ago.
Saw this thread at the top of the page and before I noticed the dates I thought there'd been bomb blasts today, anxiously scanning the news sites for info.
Northern line was pretty empty this morning for me ... this was probably why ...
Northern line was pretty empty this morning for me ... this was probably why ...
really?
it was ramajam at London Bridge around 9am.
expected to see more gun toting police than i did though.
Saw this thread at the top of the page and before I noticed the dates I thought there'd been bomb blasts today, anxiously scanning the news sites for info.
Yup - be nice if the title was changed to read (ARCHIVE) or something.
Not nice to read that, even if you know it's the old one.
FridgeMagnet
07-07-2008, 12:33
I'll move this to an archive forum.
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