July 2005 London bomb blasts: UPDATES AND NEWS ONLY - NO DISCUSSION [Archive] - Page 8

Badgers

08-07-2005, 14:16

I find the repitition of the phrase "police sniper" very interesting and points to this being a myth. Police would not use this phrase (more likely marksman) and would probably deny that they even employ "snipers".

The term sniper has not been said by any official source to my knowledge but this was the terminology that was used by the person who claims to have witnessed this.

I agree that it does not seem to make sense to holdback news but I beleive the person that told me.

kea

08-07-2005, 14:17

ihb - i repeat - can you ask your friend where exactly in canary wharf it was, at what time, and where they were watching from?

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 14:25

Met Police Briefing which was due at 3pm is delayed for some reason

Onslow

08-07-2005, 14:26

im hearing on Virgin radio that Waterloo stations is, or has been evacuated...has anyone else heard this? i cant find any links you see..

ruffneck23

08-07-2005, 14:27

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 14:30

Onslow heard nothing about Waterloo stations being evacuated talksport haven't reported it

Badgers

08-07-2005, 14:30

ihb - i repeat - can you ask your friend where exactly in canary wharf it was, at what time, and where they were watching from?

Sorry kea,

She is in a meeting but will be back around 4ish, I will get the full details and stick them up for you.

tollbar

08-07-2005, 14:30

There seems to be a lot more confusion about whats been going on then I can remember when the RA were bombing even down to the death toll which leads me to suspect that theres probably more going on then we know.

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 14:32

met police briefing just started

Badgers

08-07-2005, 14:33

met police briefing just started

13 confirmed dead from the bus :(

kea

08-07-2005, 14:35

cheers ihb!! am leaving the office at 4.30 and won't be back online til monday but if i don't see your post before i go, i will make sure i look it up on monday :)

stuff_it

08-07-2005, 14:35

dunno if someones said this already , but yesterday there were so many reports flying in ie the bomber in canary wharf , 3 busses , 7 explosions etc.... that all seemed to evaporate before the evening news when it was down to 4 explosions , but reminds me of 9/11 when the first reports said 7 planes were hi-jacked , now im not a conspiracy loon...... but are the first reports errors or has there been a media white wash to stop the panic..... any views? :confused:

They said on the news that people were coming out of more than one tube station for some of he tube bombs depending what station they could walk to more esaily...thus confusion over one or two explosions.

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 14:50

Talksport reporting false alarm at Kings Cross due to a passenger leaving their bag in the station

/\ /\ /\ /\

Who are these idiots??? :mad:

(Sorry for intemperence, but frog od's sake ... )

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 14:52

Paddick was asked about the shooting at his press conference yesterday and could barely stop himself bursting out laughing.

:confused: :confused:

<edit> subsequent posts offer possible explanations/speculation ...

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 14:54

can anyone confirm whether waterloo is evacuated?

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 14:55

can anyone confirm whether waterloo is evacuated?

Nothing on line (I did a quick search) and no-one here seems to have heard anything about it (yet)

editor

08-07-2005, 14:56

It is possible they were ordered not to. The logic could be that reporting that could provoke panic.
Wooarggh there! Exactly how easy do you think it would be for an international news agency to be "ordered" not to release a big story?

Mr.Bishie

08-07-2005, 14:58

Police have "marksmen" - other agencies call them "snipers".

There's an awful lot we ain't being told at present.

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 14:58

Wooarggh there! Exactly how easy do you think it would be for an international news agency to be "ordered" not to release a big story?

<pure speculation>

They might have been encouraged to withhold it for now, if they were persuaded that what may have happened at Canary Wharf was integral to the investigation??

</pure speculation>

And you know I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

stroober

08-07-2005, 15:02

13 people were killed o the bus in Tavistock sq :(

kea

08-07-2005, 15:10

can anyone confirm whether waterloo is evacuated?

i would also like to know this, as i'm leaving in a bit to get a train from there!

edit: tfl website reports delays on the northern line because of an earlier security alert at waterloo - so it sounds as though it's over and it was focussing on the northern line platforms, not the mainline station.

asha2323

08-07-2005, 15:19

I was mulling this over with a couple of friends last night and we came to an odd conclusion/theory...

<Speculation>

Whoever let the bomb off on the bus was possibly late arriving at his destination. Realising that the tube would be closed, decided to detonate there and then.

Obviously this theory relies on the fact that it was a suicide bomber.

It just struck us as odd that there were bombs on tubes (which potentially could cause a lot more disruption) and then just the one on a bus. Also, detonating right outside the BMA... Would an organised terrorist do this? Surely the maximum casualties are what the evil B*stard is after.. The choice of location seemed likely to minimise casualties...

Perhaps he had a twisted change of heart at the last moment, etc.

</speculation>

Maybe this is a crackpot theory.

Asriel

08-07-2005, 15:21

Wooarggh there! Exactly how easy do you think it would be for an international news agency to be "ordered" not to release a big story?

I work for one of London's news agenies and it does happen, not very often mind. We got the story in very early yesterday, but didn't put it out.

PacificOcean

08-07-2005, 15:22

The forensics are saying none of them were suicide bombers as the bombs were placed on the floor according to the BBC website.

Mr.Bishie

08-07-2005, 15:24

What about the bus?

Cotch

08-07-2005, 15:25

I work for one of London's news agenies and it does happen, not very often mind. We got the story in very early yesterday, but didn't put it out.

Why did you not put it out? Because it wasn't true?

Roadkill

08-07-2005, 15:26

What about the bus?

Denoated accidentally, they think, and whoever was carrying it died. According to the BBC News site it was either on the floor or on a seat.

asha2323

08-07-2005, 15:27

The forensics are saying none of them were suicide bombers as the bombs were placed on the floor according to the BBC website.

Surely then, someone would have noticed 10 pounds of explosive, left unattended.....

i'm just going to stop speculating.. It just seems unlikely that this would go unnoticed for any considerable period of time...

The upshot is that buses have cctv on their upper decks. This could be a good lead to who got on and off the bus... Tubes have no cctv in carriages.

Cotch

08-07-2005, 15:33

Tubes have no cctv in carriages.

Some do, Northern Line for example. Not sure about Piccadilly Line but I don't think H&C and Circle line do.

Cotch

08-07-2005, 15:34

Surely then, someone would have noticed 10 pounds of explosive, left unattended.....

I have a theory that the bombs were left in the driver's cabs that are in the middle of the trains on Piccadily Line and H&C/Circle line trains.

noodles

08-07-2005, 15:37

I have a theory that the bombs were left in the driver's cabs that are in the middle of the trains on Piccadily Line and H&C/Circle line trains.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/html/russell_sq.stm

Badger Kitten

08-07-2005, 15:38

Cid

08-07-2005, 15:39

exosculate

08-07-2005, 15:40

Major Tom

08-07-2005, 15:40

This is a long thread and not sure how much this factor has been discussed if at all but certainly suprised me today.

I saw on the BBC that a suicide bomber had been shot by police in Docklands yesterday morning but reasonably quickly this was denied and I have not seen any more mention of this since.

Came into the office and spoke to a business associate who is based in Canary Wharf and she (+ 5 collegues) saw the police snipers shoot a man in the street. Now she is not somebody that is full of shit, I have know her for some time now and trust her 100%.

:confused:

A friend of mine was on a tube train in the 80s and she saw an incendiary bomb go off in the next carriage. The train was immediately evacuated.

Later that day she checked the news and saw nothing. Then she phoned the BBC up to ask if they knew and they denied it had happened.

So I wouldn't rely on everything being reported. Ever heard of D-notices?

Cotch

08-07-2005, 15:42

I am hearing on the news that the bombs were on carriage one by the first set of doors.
This is not true. That is where I was. The explosion was behind me. These reports are wrong.

(edit) sorry, that was on the Picadilly line train going from Kings X to Russell Square

When you say behind you, was it in the carriage behind you or could it have been a couple behind?

If it was the carriage directly behind you then my theory is pants.

Glad to hear you are ok. My aunt's flat mate is missing currently and was supposedly on that train.

Badger Kitten

08-07-2005, 15:42

You should report this information badger.
I have. I just spent half an hour talking to the Crimial Investigation line. I've tried the BBC newsdesk, the Surivir/Missing Person line and eventually I got through to the right people.

I am worried that people are trying to dig out bodies and they are approaching the wrong end of the train, they should approach it via Russell Square, not via Kings X. We escaped at the front, the bomb was behind us. That is the way they need to go in to get the bodies out.

Major Tom

08-07-2005, 15:43

Why would an independent news agency - whose entire raison d'etre is to churn out news in double quick time - hold back a story?

an incredibly naive question

mysterygirl

08-07-2005, 15:44

lizzieloo

08-07-2005, 15:44

Speaking of the bus explosion, he said that all the bodies had now been removed from the Tavistock Square site. Thirteen people are now known to have died on this bus.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir ian Blair

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 15:45

I've heard a couple of things that haven't been reported - the Canary Wharf thing, also a London Transport worker told a friend of mine yesterday morning that there'd been an explosion on a bus in Richmond. No idea how true that is (or otherwise) as my friend didn't see it.

That Richmond one really does sound like a bit of a rumour to be honest.

No mention of it here yesterday at any stage, and all sorts of ahem speculation was being passed around ...

noodles

08-07-2005, 15:46

I've heard a couple of things that haven't been reported - the Canary Wharf thing, also a London Transport worker told a friend of mine yesterday morning that there'd been an explosion on a bus in Richmond. No idea how true that is (or otherwise) as my friend didn't see it.

In the era of camera phones, digital cameras (I always carry mine around with me) and the internet, I cannot beleive that these incidents would have occurred without any evidence apearing except hearsay.

Major Tom

08-07-2005, 15:51

In the era of camera phones, digital cameras (I always carry mine around with me) and the internet, I cannot beleive that these incidents would have occurred without any evidence apearing except hearsay.

Unlikely that anyone could have taken a picture of a suspect being shot that could provide any sort of evidence. It would probably be a blurred picture of a bloke lying on the floor - or distant police with guns aimed - or nothing in particular.

Badger Kitten

08-07-2005, 15:53

When you say behind you, was it in the carriage behind you or could it have been a couple behind?

If it was the carriage directly behind you then my theory is pants.

Glad to hear you are ok. My aunt's flat mate is missing currently and was supposedly on that train.

I hope she/he is ok and you find her. Best wishes and prayers.

The explosion was so loud I can't tell if it was several carriages behind or the next one behind. It felt like being punched in the ears. All I know is I walked forward, escaped out the drivers hatch, it was unbelievably crowded, we escaped from the front and there was no bomb to my immediate left or right or in front of me. And I was in the middle by the door, and I fell to the left, by the doors. Then I got up and left by going straight head and out front. And the tunnel was intact.

Roadkill

08-07-2005, 15:54

There's a guy on Richard and Judy atm who's talking about it surprsingly well - has just been describing Al Qaeda as 'like supporting a football team', ie there's no coherent management structure just groups linked by an overal 'philosophy' (the football team analogy looks really heartless on paper, but the way he said it was entirely sympathetic).

I'm coming to think that this might be one of the more positive after-effects of the London bombings. There's a lot of this sort of talk in the media atm, and if it helps to break down the fantasy of a James Bond-esque, rigidly heirarchical organisaiton all dancing to bin Laden's tune that's been hammered at us since 911 then that is all to the good IMO.

Agent Sparrow

08-07-2005, 15:56

I'm coming to think that this might be one of the more positive after-effects of the London bombings. There's a lot of this sort of talk in the media atm, and if it helps to break down the fantasy of a James Bond-esque, rigidly heirarchical organisaiton all dancing to bin Laden's tune that's been hammered at us since 911 then that is all to the good IMO.
Not now obviously, but maybe in a few weeks it might be a good idea for the Beeb to show the Power of Nightmares again.

Cid

08-07-2005, 15:59

Not now obviously, but maybe in a few weeks it might be a good idea for the Beeb to show the Power of Nightmares again.

Agreed, just watched it again (I got the torrent off UKnova a while ago) and it really is an exceptional documentry. You can see the transcript here (http://www.daanspeak.com/TranscriptPowerOfNightmares3.html) (link nicked off the 'so, al qaeda did it' thread).

GarfieldLeChat

08-07-2005, 16:00

Wooarggh there! Exactly how easy do you think it would be for an international news agency to be "ordered" not to release a big story?

what you mean like prince charles and the 'thing' we cannot leagally talk about ... or perhaps many a footballers affairs which have previously been the subject to gagging orders... no of course that would never happen ...

Cid

08-07-2005, 16:17

13 confirmed dead on Bus according to C4 :(

Stobart Stopper

08-07-2005, 16:19

Surely then, someone would have noticed 10 pounds of explosive, left unattended.....

.
10 pounds of explosives would fit into a biscuit tin. Or a back pack.

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 16:19

BBC reporting Full tube services won't be restored for weeks now

Mr.Bishie

08-07-2005, 16:21

10 pounds of explosives would fit into a biscuit tin. Or a back pack.

A back pack being slightly larger to accomodate the detonation device than a biscuit tin, when discussing 10lbs of HE.

liberty

08-07-2005, 16:22

I have just met a very dear and old friend who was on the tube next to the tube that had the bomb on Edgware Road. He has no hearing in one ear but is ok. This was what he told me

We heard a massive explosion, everyone knew it was a bomb there was no question of that. The two tubes were just about to pass each other and the bomb went off just a second before the two trains would have passed. If it had been a second later I know I would be dead. I was right at the front we could not get to the driver and thought he was dead. In the end we got to him and he was not making any sense. All the windows had shattered but stayed in place on our train. The other tube was ripped to pieces the doors were gone. There was a man laying right under the train I have no idea how he got there he was screaming help me then he went quite. I do not know but I'm sure he died. We had to wait 20 minutes because we could not walk on the line. Walking back there was bodies but everyone kept it together and did not panic. It was amazing we just wanted to get out but there was no panic. I felt so happy and also very guilty.

I thank god he's ok my thoughts are with all the people who were not as lucky

x

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 16:23

BBC reporting Full tube services won't be restored for weeks now

Just to add to this, and just in case anyone isn't quite clear which parts of the tube are affected, this is what I was sent this afternoon from Transport for London :

I am writing to let you know that Tube services are now running on most lines, although you may experience some delays.

Due to the nature of the incidents, the following lines are still affected:

Piccadilly line: No service between Hyde Park Corner and Arnos Grove, or Uxbridge and Rayners Lane.

Special bus services will operate from today, until further notice, between Arnos Grove and Finchley Central. And from tomorrow, until further notice, from Bounds Green, Wood Green, Turnpike Lane to Seven Sisters station. We will also increase the frequency of the 91 bus between the Nag's Head in Holloway and Euston.

Circle and Hammersmith & City line: No service.

Metropolitan line: No service between Baker Street and Aldgate. From tomorrow the Metropolitan line will run through to Moorgate.

District line: No service between High Street Kensington and Edgware Road.

King's Cross St Pancras station is also closed.

During this time we appreciate your patience and vigilance. Please be aware that we are working to restore suspended services to full, safe operation as quickly as possible.

For further information on alternative travel options, please visit Journey Planner:
http://pull.xmr3.com/p/48637-162289-F1AE/5549534/http-www.tfl.gov.uk-journeyplanner.html

Same message is probably on the TfL site ...

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 16:24

Just seen liberty's message -- really grim :( :(

liberty

08-07-2005, 16:31

And for anyone who remembers my post yesterday about a girl I work with who was on the bus I have just received this

Dear all,

I am just about to jump into a taxi to meet ******* mum at the airport and I thought I’d give you an update on her condition.

She is undergoing surgery at the moment, and the team or surgeons will be removing bits of metal, glass and possibly plastic from her wounds. Her face is not too badly affected, but she seems to have a rather deep hole in her left hand and just below her left knee. She may need plastic surgery, if this is the case, she will undergo more surgery on Sunday.

The French embassy have been extremely supportive, they are flying in a therapist to talk to the families and injured people. The medical staff and police detectives have also been extremely helpful, kind, and gentle with her, so she is not feeling too distressed (on the surface).

I'm so happy she will be ok

fat hamster

08-07-2005, 16:38

Thank you for the update on your colleague, liberty. I had been wondering how she was getting on.

I wouldn't rely on everything being reported. Ever heard of D-notices?
Worth repeating, I think.

well red

08-07-2005, 16:55

The official line was no more than 10lbs of explosives. It could have been a lot less, particularly if it was powerful (e.g. military) explosives - 10lbs is a measure of force not necessarily a weight. I suppose it could have been a carrier bag or even a soft drink can - no-one is going to notice that in a busy bus or tube. The first few things they'll be able to find out are how it worked and what is was wrapped in.

magneze

08-07-2005, 16:58

I suppose it could have been a carrier bag or even a soft drink canHow many discarded bags and cans do we all see on the tubes and buses every day? Shit loads. Hopefully people will take their rubbish with them from now on!

ddraig

08-07-2005, 17:00

that bus driver survived :eek: bloody hell, nice one

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 17:00

Talksport now 'speculating' that it could had been 4 attackers and they all could have met at Kings Cross Station

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 18:21

just reading BBC's reporters log they are saying about MI5 and their investigation.
It appears to me that the Bombers who did this may have survived and i just pray if they are no more explosives are on them, the police are describing it as 'high esplosives'

Christian Man

08-07-2005, 18:25

Why do terrorists seem to always target left wing cities? e.g. new york, london

Shandril19

08-07-2005, 18:28

Why do terrorists seem to always target left wing cities? e.g. new york, london

I'm not sure there are many big cities that aren't "left-wing". :confused:

Large cities are for the most part always more liberal.

Stobart Stopper

08-07-2005, 18:29

Why do terrorists seem to always target left wing cities? e.g. new york, london
................Madrid. Looks like a list of Olympic entries doesn't it?
Let's hope Paris isn't next, or Moscow.

maomao

08-07-2005, 18:32

................Madrid. Looks like a list of Olympic entries doesn't it?
Let's hope Paris isn't next, or Moscow.

I think Moscow have had theirs.

laptop

08-07-2005, 18:45

The official line was no more than 10lbs of explosives. It could have been a lot less, particularly if it was powerful (e.g. military) explosives - 10lbs is a measure of force not necessarily a weight.

Wrong. They're talking about mass: "less than 4.5kg".

And if it was Semtex, that'd be 3.2 litres; other plastique will have very similar density.

Dubversion

08-07-2005, 18:46

Wrong. They're talking about mass: "less than 4.5kg".

And if it was Semtex, that'd be 3.2 litres; other plastique will have very similar density.

one day i'm going to find a subject you know NOTHING about, damn you :)

Loki

08-07-2005, 18:55

I bet laptop knows nothing about M-theory ;)

Passenger believes he saw bomber (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4663853.stm) (BBC)

William of Walworth

08-07-2005, 18:57

Passenger believes he saw bomber (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4663853.stm) (BBC)

Yes I saw that -- it's been reported in the Standard as well ...

magneze

08-07-2005, 18:58

Loki

08-07-2005, 19:02

Although, the police are also saying that they still can't be sure it was a suicide bomb and that it looks increasingly likely that it might not be. The only people who know for sure at the moment are sadly not around. :(
I know this isn't the right thread, but I've been musing about how easy it would be to leave a rucksack on a crowded rush hour tube train and leave the train. Nobody would really be sure who's rucksack it is, and besides what can they do once the doors shut and the train moves on?

magneze

08-07-2005, 19:04

I totally agree and if the bomb is as small as some are saying (drinks can or similar) then the same is true of a bus.

laptop

08-07-2005, 19:05

I bet laptop knows nothing about M-theory ;)

Which M-theory is that? The 10- or 11-dimensional space-time (that's not as elegant as quantum loop gravity), or the one I know nothing about? :)

Loki

08-07-2005, 19:06

Damn you :D

Loki

08-07-2005, 19:13

Meanwhile Charles Clarke is busy denying that this attack had anything to do with Blair's help in invading Iraq - link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4663313.stm)

magneze

08-07-2005, 19:22

Of course there is actually no firm evidence of that as yet. Although how he said the bombers wanted to destroy the "very essence of our society" on a similar lack of evidence is a bit stupid.

Kid_Eternity

08-07-2005, 19:25

Meanwhile Charles Clarke is busy denying that this attack had anything to do with Blair's help in invading Iraq - link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4663313.stm)
Interestingly Galloway was mentioned, him making his statement has allowed journalists to pursue this angle so atleast he's served some purpose...

Kid_Eternity

08-07-2005, 19:28

Of course there is actually no firm evidence of that as yet. Although how he said the bombers wanted to destroy the "very essence of our society" on a similar lack of evidence is a bit stupid.
I just think it's brilliant that they can stretch evidence to the point of stupidity when its in line with their aims but when its not its all "there's no evidence" etc...wankers.

magneze

08-07-2005, 19:29

I just think it's brilliant that they can stretch evidence to the point of stupidity when its in line with their aims but when its not its all "there's no evidence" etc...wankers.Quite. :(

wiskey

08-07-2005, 20:27

http://randomreality.blogware.com/

blog by an LAS amb tech.

today i've been speaking to paramedic friends and to be honest its sobering. they went through a lot yesterday.

Kid_Eternity

08-07-2005, 20:37

I'm trying not to imagine.

Loki

08-07-2005, 20:40

http://randomreality.blogware.com/

blog by an LAS amb tech.

today i've been speaking to paramedic friends and to be honest its sobering. they went through a lot yesterday.
Whoever this "reynolds" is, s/he speaks a lot of sense and summed it up for me.

well red

08-07-2005, 21:20

"Wrong. They're talking about mass: "less than 4.5kg".

And if it was Semtex, that'd be 3.2 litres; other plastique will have very similar density."

No, I didn't mean mass, what I mean is that they use "10lb of high explosive" as a measure of the force of a blast. If it was ammonium nitrate it might take 20 times as much weight, if it was nitroglycerine it might take 100 times less. I was trying to suggest that because a bomb had the force of "10lb of high explosive", that didn't mean someone was lugging around 5 bags of sugar, but could have been carryng smaller more powerful devices.

Jazzz

08-07-2005, 21:26

I bet laptop knows nothing about M-theory ;)

Passenger believes he saw bomber (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4663853.stm) (BBC)
This could be very interesting. Note there is no mention here of a 'middle-eastern' appearance...

... shades of Michael Meiring?

Loki

08-07-2005, 22:00

I'm not Galloway's number one fan but it was depressing how he was constantly interrupted and shouted down on Newsnight just now (by Gavin Estler?). He wasn't given an opportunity to make his point at all.

comstock

08-07-2005, 22:01

Middle eastern expert on News 24 said website message claiming responsibility 'not typical al-queda message'

coventrycityfan

08-07-2005, 22:51

i've found a website to sign a book of sympathy for London found here
http://www.prayersforlondon.com

i've signed it hope everyone does the same

laptop

08-07-2005, 23:15

No, I didn't mean mass, what I mean is that they use "10lb of high explosive" as a measure of the force of a blast.

Anti-terrorist branch head Andy Hayman said devices with less than 10 lbs (4.5kg) of high explosive had been left on the floor in the Tube trains and may have been left on the seat of the bus.

And I'm saying that if they say "4.5 kg of high explosive" there's no ambiguity: they're saying what kind of explosive, and what mass of it.

If it had been, for example, ANFO equivalent to 4.5 kg of HE, what earthly reason would they have for not saying so? It'd be important to jogging peoples' memories: "why yes, I wondered why that geezer wanted eight coffee-grinders back in May..."

wiskey

09-07-2005, 02:02

Staff at Indian call centres have been working overtime to cope with the volume of enquiries about Britain's transport network after the bomb attacks.

One company based in Mumbai (Bombay) said that calls had doubled since the attacks, which brought the transport system in and around London to a near-standstill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4661269.stm

how weird must it be going into work in india and answering the phone to freaked out british people wanting to know how to get into london to visit injured relatives, get to work, or generally live their lives around their city which has just been blown up.

and then you go home watch a bit of tv and go to bed.

headfuk

frogwoman

09-07-2005, 08:31

found out last night that the son of one of the people that goes to my synagogue died in a bomb :(

Loki

09-07-2005, 08:42

found out last night that the son of one of the people that goes to my synagogue died in a bomb :(
:( There's been a few people here who were caught up in this. One harrowing account here: http://www.urban75.org/london/bombs.html

frogwoman

09-07-2005, 08:50

yep :(:(:(

IntoStella

09-07-2005, 10:47

Central Brixton currently cordoned off. (http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=121487)

sleaterkinney

09-07-2005, 10:55

Middle eastern expert on News 24 said website message claiming responsibility 'not typical al-queda message'But on the other hand, simultaneous explosions on transport networks......

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 10:58

Stella reading the account of the central brixton story where did this small bang come from?

IntoStella

09-07-2005, 11:05

Stella reading the account of the central brixton story where did this small bang come from?
Don't know but things are back to normal now, I'm happy to say. Traffic and people are flowing freely.

Maybe they were blowing up somebody's old burger carton.

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 11:07

good news,i'm glad that was a false alarm

IntoStella

09-07-2005, 11:09

good news,i'm glad that was a false alarm
Yeah, it was the fact that there were three simultaneously around Central Brixton that was a bit worrying.

RubyToogood

09-07-2005, 11:17

No, the reporter asked had he heard about reports that a police sniper had shot a suicide bomber, and he sniggerred a bit and then said "I've not heard any report that a police sniper had shot anyone". He acted like it was the most ridiculous thing he'd ever heard.

No, what Paddick actually said, and this struck me quite clearly, was that they had had no reports of anyone being shot dead. Leaving open the possibility that someone had been shot but was still alive, in which case one would think they would want to interrogate them.

As to a Houndsditch bomb, Houndsditch is very near Aldgate East. It's probably like how people thought there were three bus bombs, because the one bus bomb was variously reported as being at Russell Square, Tavistock Place and Woburn Place, which are all actually parts of the same road.

Mrs Magpie

09-07-2005, 11:19

Stella reading the account of the central brixton story where did this small bang come from?That area is full of small bangs. Usually someone in the market dropping pallets or something similar.

Tank Girl

09-07-2005, 11:21

I've just read the whole of badger kitten's account and the updates :(

((((badgerkitten))))

Lisarocket

09-07-2005, 11:27

As to a Houndsditch bomb, Houndsditch is very near Aldgate East. It's probably like how people thought there were three bus bombs, because the one bus bomb was variously reported as being at Russell Square, Tavistock Place and Woburn Place, which are all actually parts of the same road.

STFC Loyal said on this thread on Thursday that he was working in an office on Houndsditch and they had been told to close blinds/get away from windows due to a bomb scare at about 10.30.

He hasn't posted since, so i'm assuming they were evacuated.

Edited; because i just checked his last post. He didn't mention a controlled explosion....

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 11:37

met police briefing now

Cotch

09-07-2005, 12:23

Just been announced that all 3 tube bombs went off within 50 seconds of each other

William of Walworth

09-07-2005, 13:00

Just been announced that all 3 tube bombs went off within 50 seconds of each other

Really??

All the previous timelines have shown longer gaps than that. :confused:

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:01

Really??

All the previous timelines have shown longer gaps than that. :confused:Yep, it was revealed in the MET press conference.

SubZeroCat

09-07-2005, 13:02

How did it go from being ten minutes to 50 seconds? :confused:

exosculate

09-07-2005, 13:03

How did it go from being ten minutes to 50 seconds? :confused:

Thats what I was thinking?

The bus was much later though, right?

rennie

09-07-2005, 13:04

probably because the police now have access to the underground's cameras/records n are able to piece events more accurately...

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:04

How did it go from being ten minutes to 50 seconds? :confused:New technical data.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4666591.stm

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:06

The bus was much later though, right?Yep, although they're still not quite sure why and there's a rumour going around that one of the people in hospital could have been the bus bomber. The MET "refused to confirm or deny" that at the press conference.

Christian Man

09-07-2005, 13:06

Koran 9:029 Set 38, Count 101 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Translation used: M. H. Shakir, published by Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., 1983

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:07

Summary of the MET briefing is here:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13383387,00.html

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:08

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 13:09

is it true kings cross has been evacuated? just heard at 2pm news it has anyone confirm this?

exosculate

09-07-2005, 13:11

Summary of the MET briefing is here:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13383387,00.html

From that link

:: Many victims suffered "extensive trauma".

Disembodied body parts are making identification of victims difficult.

Bloody awful.

SubZeroCat

09-07-2005, 13:11

rennie

09-07-2005, 13:12

no of course it's normal. things have happened... now everyone is trying to piece the info together. it takes time esp as it's hard to confirm what exactly happened when people arer scared, suspicious n some still hurt.

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:13

I know the BBC won't announce things until they have been properly confirmed, and this is the first time I've been around for a terrorist attack and it's reports, but is it normal that facts keep changing so much? Or am I being too suspicious?I think it's bound to happen as more and more information comes to light to be honest. The BBC as a public service broadcaster won't say anything until it's 100% confirmed, some other broadcasters may have what seem more up to date stories, but of course they may end up not being quite accurate or something.

wiskey

09-07-2005, 13:13

From that link

:: Many victims suffered "extensive trauma".

Disembodied body parts are making identification of victims difficult.

Bloody awful.

one paramedic i spoke to said he had to walk over parts and limbs to get to those still alive in the a tunnel.

Callie

09-07-2005, 13:14

I dont think facts are changing - the reported times of the explosions would have been just that - reported times of explosions, no-one would have been around watching the clock and noting the time down! Further investigation will give a more accurate estimation as to the times the explosions occured :)

exosculate

09-07-2005, 13:17

one paramedic i spoke to said he had to walk over parts and limbs to get to those still alive in the a tunnel.

The awful folly of human kind, the barbarism and the hope rolled together. :(

magneze

09-07-2005, 13:17

one paramedic i spoke to said he had to walk over parts and limbs to get to those still alive in the a tunnel.:(

I have utmost respect for those in the Emergency Services, it really is an amazing job that you all do.

rocketman

09-07-2005, 13:19

:rolleyes: Not the right thread, take it somewhere else please.
I agree. Move that post. And there's plenty in the Bible that says similar things. Muslims are NOT enemies. Killers are.

rocketman

09-07-2005, 13:22

:(

I have utmost respect for those in the Emergency Services, it really is an amazing job that you all do.

Absolutely agreed.
In terms of emerging facts. Think about the tsunami reports this year. Facts kept emerging then, and now new facts on this terrible event will continue to emerge in the coming days. This awful slaughter. These awful days.

ddraig

09-07-2005, 13:22

New technical data.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4666591.stm

wow! the pic shows a fair few people standing up on the top deck after the blast :eek:

Balbi

09-07-2005, 13:23

No, what Paddick actually said, and this struck me quite clearly, was that they had had no reports of anyone being shot dead. Leaving open the possibility that someone had been shot but was still alive, in which case one would think they would want to interrogate them.

Spot on Rubes, I remember thinking that if they had prevented another attack then it would have been all over the news. They've obviously taken this guy down in Canary Wharf and are probably at this minute doing things that would upset Amnesty International something awful.

Edit: shit shit, not the right thread for it. sorry.

SubZeroCat

09-07-2005, 13:24

:(

I have utmost respect for those in the Emergency Services, it really is an amazing job that you all do.

I feel for the people who involve themselves in this awful situation for the good of others. They are truly admirable people and I know I couldn't do it myself.

I hope the Emergency Services are well rewarded, in all senses of the word.

William of Walworth

09-07-2005, 13:31

wow! the pic shows a fair few people standing up on the top deck after the blast :eek:

A very similar pic was in the Substandard yesterday, labelled as having been taken within a minute or two of the bus bomb.

I didn't understand all those people still standing either ...

rennie

09-07-2005, 13:34

a lot of the pics from the bus explosion were taken by traffic link.

holteman

09-07-2005, 13:47

A very similar pic was in the Substandard yesterday, labelled as having been taken within a minute or two of the bus bomb.

I didn't understand all those people still standing either ...
it would fit with the explotion beeing largly at the rear of the bus....the roof would have been ripped off from the upward force of the blast meaning the front end would have been largly uneffected....its a good thing the roof ripped off so released the force of the blast or alot more of those people could have been killed
:(

Bernie Gunther

09-07-2005, 15:39

Tube bombs were simultaneous. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-content.asp?prID=420

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 16:22

somebody on another forum has said that a bomb has been found on a bus in Wood Green, anyone in this area please confirm this?

rocketman

09-07-2005, 16:54

somebody on another forum has said that a bomb has been found on a bus in Wood Green, anyone in this area please confirm this?
Nah - there's a lot of FUD going around. (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). Just focus now on the injured and the ones who've passed on, our hearts go out to those affected by this,

tollbar

09-07-2005, 17:22

A question to those with technical knowledge of these things. Would the seemimgly high incidence of the shredding of bodies in these attacks indicate the use of shrapnel in the devices ?.

rocketman

09-07-2005, 17:26

A question to those with technical knowledge of these things. Would the seemimgly high incidence of the shredding of bodies in these attacks indicate the use of shrapnel in the devices ?.
No. It would be metal and glass. I don't want to think about it.

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 17:44

fire reported at Hard Rock Cafe in Park Lane,Let's hope it's not serious

tollbar

09-07-2005, 17:47

No. It would be metal and glass. I don't want to think about it.

Who does ?. but as we are getting all these graphic accounts, its a question which is going to come up.

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 17:48

Info on fire here, sounds serious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4668157.stm

rocketman

09-07-2005, 17:56

Info on fire here, sounds serious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4668157.stm

This may 'just' be a fire, and not connected to any acts of terror.

But meanwhile, news just in:
"crews look into reports of more than 1,000 people missing".
Over 1,000 missing in tube horror (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv/article/0,2547,TCP_1213_3915418,00.html)
There are some graphic elements to this seemingly well-researched report, so be warned.

Cotch

09-07-2005, 18:09

rocketman

09-07-2005, 18:22

i'd say that is a misprint
Good point. Let's hope you are right.

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 18:24

rocketman let's hope you're right regarding fire, i pray it's not serious

DrRingDing

09-07-2005, 19:06

I've just heard from a reliable source there are about twenty bodies on a platform in Kings Cross and they are expecting to find another 30 there.

Fucking grim.

rocketman

09-07-2005, 19:38

Birmingham City Centre - Police declare security alert. Bars being searched. Cars stopped on ring road. News just in - ITN

Cotch

09-07-2005, 19:42

I've just heard from a reliable source there are about twenty bodies on a platform in Kings Cross and they are expecting to find another 30 there.

Fucking grim.

Not wishing to say your source isn't reliable, but dead bodies generally need to be kept cool. Maybe at one point in time there were 20 bodies but I doubt they are still there.

elbows

09-07-2005, 20:48

BBC News 24 is reporting that there will be a press conference about the Birmingham security alert at 10PM.

Broad street entertainment zone being evacuated is causing some major human upheaval, even if there is no actual terror incident (hopefully there wont be) this represents a major disruption to thousands of peoples saturday night.

Birmingham new street station is apparently still operating but its quit a large area of the city centre thats affected.

coventrycityfan

09-07-2005, 20:49

if you want some coverage
listen to www.bbc.co.uk/radiowm you can listen online presenter is very good taking calls and asking reporters info etc

swampy

09-07-2005, 21:03

A very similar pic was in the Substandard yesterday, labelled as having been taken within a minute or two of the bus bomb.

I didn't understand all those people still standing either ...

I got a text Thursday morning from my girlfriend saying 'the bus behind ours just exploded'. At this point I still thought there was a powersurge causing all the distress. I eventually got through to her and she mentioned the above, found it hard to believe after seeing initial pictures of the bus, but subsequent pictures showed the full disgusting carnage.

She got on the bus because Edgeware Road tube had just closed due to a 'powersurge'. She was on the way to Aldgate East tube station, hers and mine work tube stop.

I have to admit this act of terrorism has affected me a lot more than I thought it would.

Loki

09-07-2005, 21:08

Cheers for the link.

GarfieldLeChat

09-07-2005, 22:03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4668313.stm

birmingham city centre evacuated let's hope it's a false alarm ...

William of Walworth

09-07-2005, 22:07

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4668313.stm

birmingham city centre evacuated let's hope it's a false alarm ...

Controlled explosions. Large other thread near the top of General about this.

GarfieldLeChat

09-07-2005, 22:14

This may 'just' be a fire, and not connected to any acts of terror.

But meanwhile, news just in:
"crews look into reports of more than 1,000 people missing".
Over 1,000 missing in tube horror (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv/article/0,2547,TCP_1213_3915418,00.html)
There are some graphic elements to this seemingly well-researched report, so be warned.

I doubt it's a misprint rather a mis comprehension ...

There is likely to be a significant number of people who may well have lost track of people during this period of which any number of those could contact the emergancy line. It could well be that they are currently following up aroudn 1000 enquiries regarding missing people whether all of those turn out to be victims of the bombings is another matter. Hence the full quote being

As sobbing relatives held pictures and searched for missing loves at subway stations around the city, crews looked into reports of more than 1,000 people missing.

perhaps it's not helpful at this time to a) speculate about the numebr of dead and b) to sensationalise reports which are tabloid enough by selective quoting of them...

Spreading fear or misinformation at times like this is not very sensible equally sensationalising reports is as dispicable as you can be, which i hope wasn't your intention...

editor

10-07-2005, 00:28

Over 1,000 missing in tube horror (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv/article/0,2547,TCP_1213_3915418,00.html)
Good grief. Just look at the dreadful tabloid shite in that article:

"...and were so powerful that none of the 49 dead have been identified and bodies remain trapped deep inside a rat-infested subway tunnel"

I wouldn't trust a word of it myself.

laptop

10-07-2005, 00:36

"...and were so powerful that none of the 49 dead have been identified and bodies remain trapped deep inside a rat-infested subway tunnel"

That supposition - from the police statement referring to "vermin" - is all over news.google.com - but the Picadilly Line is mouse-infested, anyway.

I've never seen a rat. Unlike Bank station, where there are mice upstairs and rats downstairs. Presumably there's a little border post somewhere that I've missed. (I know the idea you don't get mice and rats together is not strictly true... but it's not far off.)

editor

10-07-2005, 01:05

(Thread moved to London forum as I felt it was not appropriate amongst the fast-moving chit chat of the general forum. I hope this is OK)

Loki

10-07-2005, 02:01

Good grief. Just look at the dreadful tabloid shite in that article:

"...and were so powerful that none of the 49 dead have been identified and bodies remain trapped deep inside a rat-infested subway tunnel"

I wouldn't trust a word of it myself.
erm, there definitely are zillions of rats living in the London Underground.

Badger Kitten

10-07-2005, 02:50

After detailed anti-terrorism staff interview I found out some stuff I needed to share.

The King X bomb was placed at the END of the first carriage, not the first set of doors on the front carriage as reprted on the news.

The tube tunnel was very narrow here, and the train was very crowded, which was why most of the people were killed and hurt at the back of carriage 1/ beginning of carriage 2.

I heard this from the counter-terrorism police who took my statement today: the BBC and ITN were wrong in their first reports.

From being there about 7-10 yards from blast, I can say that there were about 30- 50 behind me therefore who may not have got out alive. About 10 behind me walked to safety.

I understand that there are about two thirds of this number missing. I can also say that when I was at University College Hospital there was one woman at least that I saw with total amnesia who had no idea of her name, address, anything, so please therefore do not give up hope, if you are searching, yet. There is a small hope.

I can also say that the blast was very intense, so if you were rightnext to it, it would have been almost instantaneous,

because the tube tunnel was so small, and the train so rammed, those next to it would have taken the full force of the blast.

I do not know what else to say, I am sorry.

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 11:42

There was someone shot dead at Canary Warf; it was kept off the news for reasons of not wanting to start a panic. Also there were alot more bombs that never went off (meaning there could of been around 10/12 explosions) and police think this might happen again because the job wasn't done properly this time.

gaijingirl

10-07-2005, 12:01

andy2002

10-07-2005, 12:08

Yeah, I have to say I'd like to know more about the Canary Wharf shooting and all this stuff about there being more bombs. Where is this coming from - reputable sources, hearsay or what?

Louloubelle

10-07-2005, 12:13

I'm very interested to know too

sources anyone?

noodles

10-07-2005, 12:27

Badger Kitten

10-07-2005, 12:31

The Observer says all that was rumours, later found not to be true.

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 12:35

Eveidence? Sources?

It is fact, I spoke with someone I know in the police.

GarfieldLeChat

10-07-2005, 12:48

do you beleive them to be reliable? or just cuaght up with the events as they unfolded?

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 12:57

do you beleive them to be reliable? or just cuaght up with the events as they unfolded?
I'm 100% certain they are reliable.

GarfieldLeChat

10-07-2005, 13:07

fariy nuff are they 100% sure there informaition is reliable, i'm not doubting you or your friends trust levels just their information details as in where has this come from ....

swampy

10-07-2005, 13:36

Eveidence? Sources?

I work in the City and Thursday lunchtime me and a mate decided to walk around and see what was going on. Apart from there being absolutely no traffic on the roads the other interesting thing was that we bumped in to an old colleague of my friend. We got chatting and he asked us 'if we had heard about the suicide bomber that got shot at canary warf'.

Not sure how he found out, he works at Lloyd's.

andy2002

10-07-2005, 13:41

The more this 'suicide bomber shot at Canary Wharf' story does the rounds the more I think it's apocryphal. My wife - a teacher with no links to anyone 'in the know' - heard the same story in her staff room. I won't buy it until one of the national papers (not the Sun or Star) starts taking it seriously.

laptop

10-07-2005, 13:43

Not sure how he found out, he works at Lloyd's.

He read it on the interweb?

We know there's an Urban Legend. Some of Friday's postings made me think there might be actual primary sources, but they never showed up.

Early this morning I was told that a friend of a friend of a friend had seen the shooting on Friday. So it's definitely acquiring Urban Legend characterstics.

I guess the only way is to report it as fact somewhere with a wide readership and see whether I get arrested :D

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 15:12

fariy nuff are they 100% sure there informaition is reliable, i'm not doubting you or your friends trust levels just their information details as in where has this come from ....
I understand, some guy on the net saying things like this is hardly credible. I know this person and they aren't what I'd call high up in the police ranks but they're high enough to know about this type of thing.

detective-boy

10-07-2005, 16:28

I understand, some guy on the net saying things like this is hardly credible. I know this person and they aren't what I'd call high up in the police ranks but they're high enough to know about this type of thing.

Coppers (of all ranks) are sadly just as prone to believe and spread rumours as anyone else. First hand knowledge, OK. Otherwise doubtful. Can't really see The Mirror (based in Canary Wharf with many other papers) not being aware if it were real (you shoot a suicide bomber you have a massive operation whilst defusing the body ...) and agreeing to a cover up. Specific operational reasons are acceptable to the media (e.g. ongoing kidnap or blackmail enquiries) but not on this scale where they would definitely go with the public need to know.

And why no first hand accounts on the internet anywhere? Or did it all take place with the assistance of some form of cloaking device?

Stobart Stopper

10-07-2005, 16:38

My friend was in HSBC tower there on Thursday and she didn't see a thing. Security was stepped up, as the area is regarded as a target but they all went out a lunchtime, as normal, in Canada Square and didn't see anything untoward.

Louloubelle

10-07-2005, 16:57

dur...

they just flashed one of those memory forgetting, er, whatever they're called thingys

http://www.grainvert.com/IMG/jpg/meninblack1.jpg

It's jus sooooo obvious

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 17:25

Coppers (of all ranks) are sadly just as prone to believe and spread rumours as anyone else. First hand knowledge, OK. Otherwise doubtful. Can't really see The Mirror (based in Canary Wharf with many other papers) not being aware if it were real (you shoot a suicide bomber you have a massive operation whilst defusing the body ...) and agreeing to a cover up. Specific operational reasons are acceptable to the media (e.g. ongoing kidnap or blackmail enquiries) but not on this scale where they would definitely go with the public need to know.

And why no first hand accounts on the internet anywhere? Or did it all take place with the assistance of some form of cloaking device?
It was reported by the police initially then retracted because of the panic it could cause. I don't expect anyone to believe a word I'm saying (hell i'd probably not believe it if someone else came out with this) but as far as i'm concerned it happened.

detective-boy

10-07-2005, 17:34

It was reported by the police initially then retracted because of the panic it could cause.

:confused: Which police? Where? The only reason it would be retracted and any media would suddenly forget it is if it were found to be false.

Kid_Eternity

10-07-2005, 17:36

:confused: Which police? Where? The only reason it would be retracted and any media would suddenly forget it is if it were found to be false.
Or they were ordered too. Anyway, I've said what I wanted, can't really go into much more on a public board. I'm completly fine with people not believing it if that is there wish but just wanted to make sure that those that did had something along the lines of accurate info.

EastEnder

10-07-2005, 17:37

Hmmmmmm. There are thousands of people at Canary Wharf on an average week day. I'm guessing 99% of them have got camera phones. And not one single picture..... :confused:

And even if the media were sworn to silence, this is the age of the internet - not one single site with a picture related to this "incident"?

I'm far from convinced.

Ozric

11-07-2005, 09:08

Again it's just a few words but the story is definatley getting about...

Canary Wharf Shooting (http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200southlondonheadlines/tm_objectid=15716646%26method=full%26siteid=50100-name_page.html)

...the only news being 'POLICE were yesterday probing reports a man had been "neutralised" outside Canary Wharf.' and the location 'Is is believed the man was shot dead by police marksmen outside the Credit Suisse First Boston bank.'

I wonder if the person who posted earlier saying a collegue and 5 friends saying they saw the event could cross reference the location with them?

magneze

11-07-2005, 09:11

Polish security forces have searched the house of a suspect in the London bombings, after the first victim of the attacks was formally named.

The home of a Pakistani-born British man was searched in Lublin....from here...
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13384717,00.html

editor

11-07-2005, 09:11

Some bonkers racist-sounding bloke on Jon Gaunt was just banging on about how Paddick was once posting on an "anarchist website" and questioning his current police role.

To his credit, Gaunt corrected him and accurately explained Paddick's comments about anarchism. And gave the site - and me! - a nice namecheck!

kea

11-07-2005, 09:22

i saw a pic in the papers yesterday of people leaving flowers outside kings cross, it looked like there were quite a lot there already. does anyone know exactly where this is, and if the flowers will be left there for the foreseeable future? Photo and i would like to go and leave some after work today.

noodles

11-07-2005, 10:04

It was reported by the police initially then retracted because of the panic it could cause.

I can't quite get my head around this. Why would they report it and then retract it? Why would the prevention of a further attack create any more panic than was existent in the immediate aftermath of 3 bombs on tubes and a blown up bus?

I have to say this strikes me as a wind-up perpetrated by some jocks in the City. A few texts here, a few emails there, and hey presto an urban myth is born.

Ozric

11-07-2005, 10:34

Just heard on Radio1 that the helpline to give information to families is costing 40p a minute!!!! :eek:

Ae589

11-07-2005, 10:48

Major Tom

11-07-2005, 10:49

erm, there definitely are zillions of rats living in the London Underground.

After nearly 20 years of working on the undergound - this includes working at night down tunnels on most lines - i've never so much as seen a rat dropping - never mind a rat. On the other hand - the place is absolutely infested with mice.

Stobart Stopper

11-07-2005, 10:58

After nearly 20 years of working on the undergound - this includes working at night down tunnels on most lines - i've never so much as seen a rat dropping - never mind a rat. On the other hand - the place is absolutely infested with mice.
My neighbour is an engineer on the tracks, he is down the tunnels all the time, sometimes all night long and he has never seen a rat, ever.

Loki

11-07-2005, 10:59

After nearly 20 years of working on the undergound - this includes working at night down tunnels on most lines - i've never so much as seen a rat dropping - never mind a rat. On the other hand - the place is absolutely infested with mice.
Well I can't say I've worked on the tube. But...

"Rats and other vermin infest the tunnel."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1688888,00.html

laptop

11-07-2005, 11:00

My neighbour is an engineer on the tracks, he is down the tunnels all the time, sometimes all night long and he has never seen a rat, ever.

As a mere passenger, I have: but only downstairs at Bank (where the Northern Line dives under the river, for non-Londoners) and at Wapping (where the East London Line ditto). I suspect they're river rats.

Upstairs at Bank is strictly mice, as I noted earlier.

kea

11-07-2005, 11:15

Yeah, it's on the corner of York Way (to the right of the station as you look at it. There's a cordoned off area set aside.

ok cheers :)

Stobart Stopper

11-07-2005, 11:19

Reuters reporting explosion in Russia, saying 16 dead. Can't get a link up yet,but it's just been on Sky News.

Griff

11-07-2005, 11:28

Reuters reporting explosion in Russia, saying 16 dead. Can't get a link up yet,but it's just been on Sky News.

Nothing on their site yet.

Ozric

11-07-2005, 11:40

MOSCOW (Reuters) - An explosion tore through a shop in northern Russia on Monday, killing 16 people, the Emergencies Ministry said. "The explosion took place in a two-story brick building. We are trying to discover the reason," said ministry spokesman Viktor Beltsov. He said the blast was in Ukhta, a town in the Komi region around 1,500 km (930 miles) northeast of Moscow.Reuters (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-07-11T112834Z_01_N11187911_RTRIDST_0_INTERNATIONAL-RUSSIA-BLAST-DC.XML)

marty21

11-07-2005, 12:09

does anyone know anything about a controlled explosion in hackney?, someone at work mentioned it, said that a controlled explosion was carried out on a bus in hackney on thursday...

Major Tom

11-07-2005, 13:29

Well I can't say I've worked on the tube. But...

"Rats and other vermin infest the tunnel."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1688888,00.html

I always heard stories from some of the older track workers - the same story with variation about finding some huge rat's nest with hundreds of rats, tails entwined, the size of cats etc. but experience doesn't bear this out.

I've never seen one, never heard of a part of the tube where rats are a particular problem (unlike mice), or found anyone who has seen more than the odd rat in the tunnels.

Having kept rats as pets, I doubt that the underground tunnels are very good for rats, they prefer somewhere where they've got access to the outdoors. So you get them much more on railtrack or on the open sections of the Underground - I saw many of the buggers - huge too - running about on woolwich BR station platform once.

I suspect that it's more the case of the newspapers not letting truth get in the way of a good story.

kea

11-07-2005, 13:31

death toll up to 52 now :(

GarfieldLeChat

11-07-2005, 14:57

districtline

11-07-2005, 15:03

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10334992

the canary wharf story is getting mentioned in foreign press.

Phototropic

11-07-2005, 15:08

death toll up to 52 now :(

Indie is saying that the police are saying it is highly unlikely that it will go above 70. At least there is a ceiling now. :(

lang rabbie

11-07-2005, 17:06

Cloo

11-07-2005, 19:49

I visited my workmates who were on the bus.

The one who broke her cheekbones was looking understandably busted up and was a bit doped as she'd had a lot of surgery. I was glad to see it was mostly just swelling around her face - she's a beautiful girl and I was worried there would be permanent damage to it, but she'll look fine once it all heals. She's getting away without needing metal plates anywhere, which is good news.

The other girl was much more awake and lively - they've removed lots of glass and shrapnel from her legs, but they're tightly wrapped up. They're basically having to leave the wounds open but clean in order to perform grafts and have them look as unscarred as possible. She said she wasn't too uncomfortable but I suspect it will be some time before she can bend and move her legs normally. But she's a really positive person and is very close to her family (as is the other girl - her husband, sister and mum were there) so she has a lot of resources to help her through this.

The worse thing is that she told me why they were on that bus - they were told to get off the tube and then, not being sure where to go, decided to take the 30 as it said 'Kings Cross' and they thought they'd get something useful from there.

They were at Euston.

If only one of them had known that it was just a 500m walk away they needn't have got on a bus at all. :( But I guess a lot of people who don't go overground much don't know things like that.

Giles

11-07-2005, 21:58

I can't quite get my head around this. Why would they report it and then retract it? Why would the prevention of a further attack create any more panic than was existent in the immediate aftermath of 3 bombs on tubes and a blown up bus?

I have to say this strikes me as a wind-up perpetrated by some jocks in the City. A few texts here, a few emails there, and hey presto an urban myth is born.

This is definitely a myth. It was only reported during the first, confused hours after the explosions, along with stories about many more bombs exploding than actually did, power surges, thousands of casualties, and other rubbish.

All of the conspiracy theorists who are seizing on the "disappearance" of this story are wrong. It didn't happen, that's why the story is no longer being reported.

Unless someone comes up with first-hand (not "friend of a friend" stuff) confirmation that they SAW this, I shan't believe a word of it.

Giles..

Oxpecker

11-07-2005, 22:49

After nearly 20 years of working on the undergound - this includes working at night down tunnels on most lines - i've never so much as seen a rat dropping - never mind a rat. On the other hand - the place is absolutely infested with mice.

Of course you get rats on the Underground; they may not be as highly visible (or as numerous) as the mice but I've seen plenty during my time as a driver.

detective-boy

12-07-2005, 06:11

does anyone know anything about a controlled explosion in hackney?, someone at work mentioned it, said that a controlled explosion was carried out on a bus in hackney on thursday...

They'll be happening everywhere, mate. It is standard practice if police are not happy with an object (although "controlled explosion" is not exactly accurate - they are normally blasted with a robot mounted shotgun using a single lead slug cartridge). Far too many to make even the local papers usually. You'll hear if it's a real one!

kea

12-07-2005, 08:20

easy g

12-07-2005, 08:23

5 homes raided in Yorkshire (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm)

ChrisFilter

12-07-2005, 09:47

Colleagues boyfriend passed away today after having been unconcious since Thursday :(

Roadkill

12-07-2005, 09:58

when i did my london underground track training we were told never to touch the walls of the tunnels if at all possible, because the rats run along the cables which are mounted on the walls, and pee as they go, and rat pee carries some dangerous disease or other - weils??

Weils disease (http://www.leptospirosis.org/)

Some places I used to go dinghy sailing when I was younger had big warnings about swallowing the water, because of the risk.

Of course you get rats on the Underground; they may not be as highly visible (or as numerous) as the mice but I've seen plenty during my time as a driver

I've a mate whose dad's an engineer on the tube. He certainly talks about the rats down there. I did read somewhere too that the tube has its own microclimate, and the rats and cockroaches down there are effectively a separate sub-species, specially adapted to the conditions. Yuk! :( Have to say, I don't envy the job of anyone who works down there.

@ Chris, sorry to hear that. :( :(

kea

12-07-2005, 10:26

Colleagues boyfriend passed away today after having been unconcious since Tuesday :(

:( so sorry to hear that, chris :(
(edit: since tuesday? do you mean thursday?)

Major Tom

12-07-2005, 10:36

Of course you get rats on the Underground; they may not be as highly visible (or as numerous) as the mice but I've seen plenty during my time as a driver.

I didn't say there were none - just not many.

Rat stories I've heard from track workers and drivers always seem exagerated, and to tell the truth, I tend to disregard them.

Clearly there are plenty of rats in sub-surface and open sections, but I don't believe that many live in the tube sections.

magneze

12-07-2005, 10:37

Colleagues boyfriend passed away today after having been unconcious since Tuesday :(:(

SubZeroCat

12-07-2005, 11:24

Colleagues boyfriend passed away today after having been unconcious since Tuesday :(

:(

ChrisFilter

12-07-2005, 11:40

:( so sorry to hear that, chris :(
(edit: since tuesday? do you mean thursday?)

yeah, sorry.

ngeru

12-07-2005, 12:05

Oh how sad Chris. :(

tom k&e

12-07-2005, 12:52

Controlled explosion at one of the houses being searched in Yorkshire (on bbc news ticker)

magneze

12-07-2005, 13:01

Armed police have taken up positions outside a house minutes after what was reported to have been a controlled explosion.http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

Loki

12-07-2005, 13:10

They're relating this directly to the terrorist attack according to the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

magneze

12-07-2005, 14:12

BBC News24: There's now a car in Luton that's being searched in connection with the attack. The car park is closed off apparently. It's all happening it seems ... still no arrests though.

slaar

12-07-2005, 14:24

More info here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1526712,00.html

Lots going on obviously, encouraging signs.

beefykoala

12-07-2005, 14:31

Controlled explosion in a house in Burley, Leeds (a mile from where I am moving next week!!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/default.stm (BBC)

slaar

12-07-2005, 15:00

BBC ticker now saying bus bomber died at the scene. Seems almost certain he's been traced to one of the houses in Leeds. Serious lead.

Belushi

12-07-2005, 15:16

Apparenlty a number of arrests have now been made in Yorkshire

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 15:28

Sky News: 4 bombers died in London attacks.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

Roadkill

12-07-2005, 15:37

Sky News: 4 bombers died in London attacks.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

Hmm. BBC, the Guardian and the Mirror have nothing on that story. Evidently the bus bomber died, but there's nowt on the others so far.

Tbh I hope they weren't all blown to pieces, because I'd like the satisfaction of seeing them jailed for the rest of their lives.

Things seem to be moving pretty fast today though, don't they?

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 15:38

It is on Sky tv news. From what I gather there's a car under investigation as well, in Luton as well as this house in Leeds. I am making my own mind up but I won't say what I think on here.

Roadkill

12-07-2005, 15:40

It is on Sky tv news. From what I gather there's a car under investigation as well, in Luton as well as this house in Leeds. I am making my own mind up but I won't say what I think on here.

Tbh Sky is about the last place I'd go for reliable news...

If it's true I dare say it'll show up elsewhere later.

Orang Utan

12-07-2005, 15:43

Arrests have been made in Hyde Park/Burley according to the Beeb as well as streets sealed off in Beeston and Dewsbury

laptop

12-07-2005, 15:44

It is on Sky tv news.

Bit like certain posters here: on the face of it, as a rule of thumb, I believe it a bit less because of who said it.

Sky trying to take advantage of BBC's post-Hutton resolution not to be first but to be right. Must remember to lead Sky up some amusing garden path, as soon as it's tasteful so to do. Shouldn't be hard.

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 15:47

Shopping mall explosion in Jerusalem, many casualties. Source:Reuters.

slaar

12-07-2005, 15:48

All four bombers British according to BBC, not all four bombers died.

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 15:50

Looks Like Paddick or Blair are about to give a statement shortly.

slaar

12-07-2005, 15:55

All tube train bombers British-born suicide bombers according to News 24 quoting security sources.

slaar

12-07-2005, 16:13

Press conference: 3 of the homes raided belonged to the bombers, all caught on CCTV at King's Cross, one reported as missing person on Thursday 10am, 3 names found close to explosions, "missing" guy was on the bus, strong forensic evidence of death at Aldgate, not yet formally confirmed, investigation still at early stages. "Suspect materials" found in Yorkshire, detailed analysis to follow, same with car in London, one arrest in Yorkshire.

exosculate

12-07-2005, 16:17

CCTV footage at Kings cross of all four men - if correct it suggests they all died in the attcks, because if they wanted to survive and not be caught it seems likely they would not have met up in advance. They would have known there would be CCTV footage and that it would draw unwarranted attention to themselves.

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 16:19

All tube train bombers British-born suicide bombers according to News 24 quoting security sources.
So, Sir John Stevens (and Sas) was right after all.

exosculate

12-07-2005, 16:22

So, Sir John Stevens (and Sas) was right after all.

So ID cards would have been very helpful then.

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 16:22

exosculate

12-07-2005, 16:22

And there's something in here that looks very dodgy indeed. I could be wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4664209.stm

What in there?

Stobart Stopper

12-07-2005, 16:25

jæd

12-07-2005, 16:26

Then why did you say it...?

kea

12-07-2005, 16:27

i think she means that there's a young asian lad among those missing.
and if that's what it is, i think it's a piece of shit.

Orang Utan

12-07-2005, 16:29

Something that looks dodgy. To me. That's all I am saying.

You can't just say that - that's a fucking stupid fishwife gossipy thing to say - fucking spit it out!

exosculate

12-07-2005, 16:30

i think she means that there's a young asian lad among those missing.
and if that's what it is, i think it's a piece of shit.

I was hoping it wasn't that.

The BBC News 24 report suggests one of the bombers was reported missing at approx 10am on Thursday last by his mother. I'm not sure if Stobbie is suggesting that that is him on that list!