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SWP expulsions and squabbles

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Nigel Irritable, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    Ok, I do indeed stand corrected.:oops:

    is it any wonder people laugh at trots?

    I'm no theorist, and I sure wouldn't claim to know what all socialists are supposed to get up to but to a simple soul like me that attitude, "strike whenever possible" seems a pretty good way to polarise workers into the arms of the tories.

    Not only is confrontation at all costs plainly tactical nonsense it's strategically utterly inept to seek strikes as an end in themselves. Unless you're a vanguard party trying to build membership and paper sales with zero regard for anything else, I s'pose.
  2. comrade spurski

    comrade spurski Well-Known Member

    Ign are supposed to get up to but to a simple soul like me that attitude, "strike whenever pssible" seems a pretty good way to polarise workers into the arms of the tories.

    Not only is confrontation at all costs plainly tactical nonsense it's strategically utterly inept to seek strikes as an end in themselves. Unless you're a vanguard party trying to build membership and paper sales with zero regard for anything else, I s'pose.[/quote]
    Ignore post ... completely misread and answered something wrongly
  3. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?


    Kylie Minogue on Party and Class
    xslavearcx likes this.
  4. andysays

    andysays Still as obsequious as ever

    Maybe Kylie's a secret Swappie, but I think it's a different kind of party she has in mind :D
  5. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    That was the joke Andy. Its all in the ambiguity.

    anyway I woke up the other night in a cold sweat after a horrendous nightmare . I was shaking and then to my horror I felt something heavy at the end of my bed on my feet. I looked down and saw what looked to be the severed head of Gloria Gaynor.

    First I was afraid then I was petrified.
    SpineyNorman, cesare and andysays like this.
  6. eoin_k

    eoin_k An Sionnach Abu

    Does that include the big one in the north of Ireland in 1973?

    [​IMG]
  7. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    I'll re-post something i posted years ago and add a fw links to shorter texts:

    Italy 1977-78: Living With An Earthquake - Red Notes
    Working class autonomy and the crisis : Italian Marxist texts of the theory and practice of a class movement 1964-79 - Red Notes
    Italy: Autonomia: post political politics
    Storming Heaven: Class Composition and Struggle in Italian Autonomist Marxism - Steve Wright (should probably be your intro text along with the essential intro.chapter to Reading Capital Politically).
    Books for Burning - Negri
    Revolution Retrived - Negri - two collections of his fine 70s work.
    Radical Thought in Italy: A Potential Politics. (pdf)

    Other interesting/useful stuff:

    Strike One to Educate One Hundred - early red Brigades stuff - up to mid-late 70s
    Stefano Delle Chiaie: Portrait of a Black terrorist - fascsist terrorism in post war Italy and the links with the state, NATO, gladio etc
    The Revolutionary Mystique and Terrorism in Contemporary Italy - Richard Drake (interesting but his interpretations of what marxism is/was is way off, but this has loads of stuff that others don't
    The Judge and the Historian - Carlo Ginzburg, great investigation into the fallout fo the bomb PInelli fell out of a window for.
    The Italian Resistance: Fascists, Guerrillas and the Allies - Tom Behan
    Long Awaited Moment: The Working Class and the Italian Communist Party in Milan, 1943-1948 - Behan - both these cover the potential revolutionary moment immediately after Musso's fall etc
    Moscow and the Italian Communist Party: from Togliatti to Berlinguer - Joan Barth urban
    The Italian left in the 20th Century -De Grand, standard intro text.
    Also, a fascinating book, Between Hollywood and Moscow: The Italian Communists and the Challenge of Mass Culture, 1943-91, goes very well with that Bona della book i mentioned above.

    For short intro texts:

    Our operaismo - Mario Tronti
    The Renascence of Operaismo (recommended)
    There and back again: mapping the pathways within autonomist Marxism
    From operaismo to autonomist Marxism and The limits of Negri's class analysis: Italian autonomist theory in the seventies both offe excellent critiical thoughts from within/sympathetic to the tradition

    This is barely scratching the surface to be honest.
    oskarsdrum, Nigel, lagtbd and 8 others like this.
  8. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    I don't remember anyone talking of it that way at all - it's just a way of saying look, STWC failed because it was autonomist , which is such a crazy thing to say on so many levels - from it's leadership being a mix of trots and stalinists who consciously destroyed any chance of autonomous action being supported and expanded by STW onward - and those trots are now the ones who characterise it as an autonomist multitude. Just a horrible mix of dishonesty and the effect of years of that dishonesty on lower level members who have their strings pulled to write and talk this...garbage. Then again, it's the same as their anti-anarchist rubbish from the 70s and 80s - no theory of the state, anti-organisation etc - actually it's exactly the same smears with autonomism changed for anarchism and with as little understanding of what is being criticised (criticised into existence!).
    frogwoman likes this.
  9. xslavearcx

    xslavearcx lack of comprehension


    Thats really great butchersapron, thanks very much. was just about to come on this and ask for something of this nature....
  10. mk12

    mk12 Well-Known Member

    I remember taking Storming Heaven with me to Tenerife, while my girlfriend took Twighlight. It's good, but it isn't sit-round-the-pool-in-boiling-hot-weather reading.
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Supposed to be the future at our backs not the spanish sun!
  12. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Surprised at that as my eldest daughter thought Twilight was essential non stop reading for around the pool in boiling hot weather
    mk12 likes this.
  13. killer b

    killer b curled up on the sofa

    My eldest daughter thought storming heaven would have benefited from a few more vampires.
  14. copliker

    copliker ...

  15. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    J Ed likes this.
  16. Oisin123

    Oisin123 So Much for Subtlety

  17. copliker

    copliker ...

    Ta, I still prefer papery yokes.
  18. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

  19. andysays

    andysays Still as obsequious as ever

    I knew that :D

    Nigel Irritable will be here shortly to berate us both for going off topic.

    Maybe you should start another thread for the discussion of unlikely Leninist sub-texts to popular songs (you know you want to...)
  20. andysays

    andysays Still as obsequious as ever

    Interesting. William Godwin's daughter famously thought Enquiry Concerning Political Justice and its Influence on Morals and Happiness would have benefited from some stuff about monsters made out of re-animated body parts.

    Kids, eh...
  21. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Careful, he'll be onto the Girls Aloud Kronstadt song next.
    frogwoman likes this.
  22. Louis MacNeice

    Louis MacNeice Autumn Journalist


    Not so much a sub text more a great tune.



    Cheers - Louis MacNeice
  23. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    In a dash so here are the headlines:

    1.we do have the lyrics to the GirlAloud b side Kronstadt , it was on their first demo.

    2. Here is a link to one of the edited highlights of revolutionary musical culture during the Miners Strike done on a portable cassette after Orgreave https://soundcloud.com/jonny-favourite
    frogwoman likes this.
  24. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    damn missed that post,
  25. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Did you notice Norman Strike did a thing at Marxism this year.
  26. andysays

    andysays Still as obsequious as ever

    I'm also in a dash, so I'll have to return to this later... :hmm:
  27. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

  28. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Question then is, what weight are they - a flyweight who can punch to standard lightweight power? What use is that against a heavyweight?
  29. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist virtue without terror is impotent.

  30. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Didn't the SWP CC declare the discussion is now over in january? Yet now we find Kimber offering this in public:

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