Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by bi0boy, Jul 22, 2011.
Nah he'll repent and become a born again
I have very mixed feelings about the way that this trial is still going on. I guess there is an argument that it will provide a needed catharsis, but in terms of case itself, there is no need for any more, and every time Breivik is given the opportunity to say more in public, he gains a little victory in my eyes. The process of talking to him and getting him to explain himself, and maybe eventually confront himself, may be better carried out after the trial in private, imo.
There is no doubt that he did it. His defence is absurd. What else is there? Determining his sanity, I suppose, but I don't think there can be a satisfactory answer to that one. It would be nice if there were some clear line between sanity and madness, but there isn't. The line is blurry, and Breivik sits somewhere in that blurry area.
Totally agree. Though the line is partly blurred because 'sanity' is a social construct agreed by consesnus.
What he conveys is a real belief in what he did was some how needed is the most chilling aspect for me. Clearly a cracked individual.
It is, yes. tbh, I'd be tempted to find him insane for no other reason than because he wants to be declared sane. In the end the decision is a fairly arbitrary one.
I disagree. Breivik did monstrous things, but every time he opens his mouth it becomes more and more evident that all he is is a pathetic creature, striking out of bitterness because society cheated on him with everyone else whilst he was playing WoW. Getting him to expose himself like this is a good thing, it makes the already remote chance that someone will follow him even less likely.
I can see that argument. I guess for me it comes down to a question of dignity as much as anything. Not his dignity, but everyone else's.
tbh I would think that nobody really knows what the best thing to do is. This kind of thing shouldn't happen. We don't have a way of dealing with it worked out.
This last bit in bold - I don't know how to judge that.
Trial is scheduled to go on till end of June.
Seems a good enough reason to me. Though I'd be tempted to find him sane like he wants and then shoot him in the gut.
Massive crowd a bit earlier outside the courthouse singing a song he says he's always hated.
Norwegian version of Pete Seeger's My Rainbow Race.
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I hope this isn't going to happen if I say I don't like the national anthem. I'd be most put out if tens of thousands of people gathered on the mall or trafalgar square to sing god save the queen.
but you aren't planning to murder anyone.
The sight of tens of thousands of people singing god save the queen or rule britannia might tip me over the edge
you'd have to murder people before thousands of people sung a song you didn't like, imo
*note to self: strike Pickman's model off the Last Night of the Proms invite list*
Strike me off that list as well. Awful it is.
And everytime he opens his mouth in an attempt to justify the despicable crimes he committed, his conscience, and even this odious individual has one, will be at the forefront of his thoughts, even if momentarily now, as time goes on he will not be able to stand the torture, which is his own human conscience. Pleasant dreams for Breivik are now null and void, his experience when he sleeps, if he can sleep that is, are never ending nightmares. bignose1 rightly holds to the view that he will 'repent and be born again'. It's his only way out. He said he considered suicide, but the coward never went through with it. I'll wager he'll wish he had in the not too distant future.
frankly you seem to mistake the far-right mentality. dead, his grave will be a site for pilgrimage, or in the absence of that places with which he is associated, like utoya, will become sites for far-right pilgrimage. hell, if the fash were prepared to make ian stuart donaldson's crash site a memorial or hold regular trips to where hess was buried, then they'll certainly go to breivik's grave. they'll say he didn't top himself, he was suicided, like hess. if, on the other hand, he grows old and grey in a prison cell, and quite possibly renounces what he did (whether through a genuine change of heart or in an attempt to get released) he will undermine his martyr status. it's not like sings like 'lonely man of spandau' will be written about him if that happens.
and suicide's generally seen as the coward's way out (unless it's the virtuous roman falling on his sword.
Many, as you well know, have moved away and renounced their former far-right mentality. Others go bonkers, with one well known fascist being caught stealing women's knickers. Breivik is no Rudolf Hess.
Edit: Fyodor Dostoevsky's 'Crime and Punishment' is a tale of the human conscience getting the better of someone, who got away with a crime, but in the end his conscience got the better of him and the perpetrator of the dirty deed had to admit to the murder to ease his conscience.
So this Crime And Punishment thing is....hang on a minute whilst I get a pen and paper...right...carry on...about something something and a conscience something, right?
thing is i'm not even sure breivik is a psychopath. he certainly seems to have distinguished between his victims and be able to have some idea of what they were feeling - even if he thinks it was "necessary". Surely that shit would send any normal human insane but it doesn't seem to have happened to him.
Neither am I. You can test for psychopathy - it has a characteristic brain pattern - and I would guess that he should be tested in due course.
I think a lot of people want him to be mad or at least a psycho in order to create a distance between him and us. I can understand that. It is harder to take that he went wrong in another way.
I hope he is found insane and carted-off to an old-school mental asylum, not because I believe him insane (though sanity has clearly done him no good) but rather just because it would really piss him off.
Annoyingly in this case, Norway is probably far too advanced a society to have any old-school mental asylums left.
If it's hard for us it's going to be harder for those fash activists that still have a bit of a conscience left.
i do have some hope that this could make a few of them think seriously about wtf it is that they're doing. most won't, but some will.
That's still open to quite a lot of dispute.
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