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England vs South Africa, 2012

Discussion in 'general sports' started by Santino, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    South Africa warming up against Somerset. Morne Morkel going for almost 10 an over wtf.
  2. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    That's a somerset related thing i expect - his brother pretty much took Trego's place in our t20 side and Pete is getting a bit of revenge.
  3. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Who would you put in the England Test side first - Hildreth or Buttler?
  4. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Hildreth. Jos is just still too rash and impatient.
  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    That said, i don't think Hildreth is going to make it. The selectors think they've identified a problem with the short ball that he can get away with at County level but not test level, and they also seem to think he scores the bulk of his runs at taunton and that he falters elsewhere (this is according to Brian Rose iirc). The first maybe true, the second hasn't been true for at least three seasons now.
  6. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Domination Snert

    Boucher gone to hospital with a serious eye injury, sounds nasty.
  7. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Somerset into the SA tail now - 19-2 after declaring on 312-8.

    Boucher was hit from a bail flying off Hussain's broken stumps - operation already scheduled.
  8. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    That Boucher injury sounds like a complete freak incident. I've kept wicket for years and have had the bails fly past my head on numerous occasions, really unlucky for him. I really hope its not as serious as it sounds.

    Who is SA's back-up keep on the tour? I know AB De Villiers can keep but surely they'd want him to concentrate on his batting.

    Edit - Looking at their squad they havent brought a second specialist keeper, so if Boucher is out of the tour it'll have to be De Villiers unless they plan to fly someone out, or perhaps there is a SA keeper already playing county cricket over here? Apart from Kieswetter obviously.

    South Africa Test squad to face England: Graeme Smith (captain), Hashim Amla, Mark Boucher (wk), Marchant de Lange, AB de Villiers (vice-captain), JP Duminy, Imran Tahir, Jacques Kallis, Morne Morkel, Alviro Petersen, Robin Peterson, Vernon Philander, Jacques Rudolph, Dale Steyn, Lonwabo Tsotsobe.
  9. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus would be a rubbish god

    They don't have one. Cricinfo says they'll probably call up Thami Tsolekile, who was earmarked as Boucher's replacement anyway (Boucher is retiring after this tour).
  10. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Well he better get on the plane sharpish. Actually just looking at his stats on cricinfo and I can't imagine for one minute that they would throw him into the first test. A 31 with a 1st class average of 29 and all made in South Africa? This English summer will not be kind to him I suspect.

    De Villiers will have to keep if this injury is as bad as it sounds.
  11. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Boucher flying home.
  12. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Domination Snert

    Wasn't he retiring at the end of the series? Not a good way to end a career.
  13. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Indeed. Thing is even if he was wearing a helmet it might not have made any diiference as the bail could have flown through the grill.
  14. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus would be a rubbish god

    Boucher retires. Sounds like a really nasty injury. At least it was at the end of his career, not the beginning, I suppose. But really bad luck.
  15. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus would be a rubbish god

    I don't know much about him, but that average might be on the way up, and if he's a good keeper, then something approaching that average in tests would be as good as Boucher did.

    As for the English summer, South African conditions aren't so different from English conditions. He'll be used to playing the seaming/swinging ball.
  16. butchersapron

    butchersapron shoot 'em in the back

    Somerset wrestle them to the ground. Bring on the aussies.
  17. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Apparently he's played 3 tests back in that period when Boucher got kicked out because the senior players were getting to big for their boots. He seemingly didnt impress much scoring 47 at an average of just over 9. My comment about the summer was more regarding this particular summer when the ball is hooping around all over the place at the moment.

    A test average for a wicket keeper is ok at 29, but not that great in this age. A first class average of 29 is not good enough (compare it to the keepers England can call on: Prior - 40.28, Kieswetter - 38.75, S. Davis - 39.09) and suggests a real lack of talent for SA in this position. I'll be amazed if De Villiers doesnt keep and probably will do for the foreseeable.

    Of course this will unsettle what has been a very impressive batting line-up.
  18. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    A keeper who can reliably catch is more valuable than the 20 or 30 runs they might score each innings.
  19. paulhackett

    paulhackett voiced by strother martin

    He broke the SA record for dismissals in a first class cricket in his last match for SA A vs SL A.. 8 catches in an innings.. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565856.html
  20. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Good teams have both. And its not a case of 20-30 runs its the big centuries that can change matches. It must be De Villiers unless they genuinly think it'll badly adverse his batting.
  21. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Domination Snert

    Who's the batsman who would come in instead of the back up wicketkeeper if De Villiers keeps wicket?
  22. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    I expect their top seven will be Smith, A Peterson, Amla, Kallis, Duminy, Rudolph and De Villers.

    De Villiers was batting down at 5 anyway so I suspect he will either drop to 6 or 7. The final batting spot was always going to be between Duminy and Rudolph with Rudolph more likely because of his experience of English conditions.
  23. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Domination Snert

    That's a pretty impressive list of batsmen tbf.

    ETA: Although Rudolph and Duminy don't actually have great averages. Both mid 30s which surprised me a bit.
  24. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Aye, bowling is not bad either now they seem to have found a spinner. I just wonder who the 3rd quick will be? Like England they have a few to choose from.
  25. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    Meanwhile it looks like Bopara is batting his way into the last batting slot for England.
  26. paulhackett

    paulhackett voiced by strother martin

    Has De Villiers kept in a Test before? I imagine it would have to affect his batting if he keeps for a long period of time, even if he drops down the order? Prepares to eat words..
  27. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    He must have done, but I'm not good enough on statsguru to work out what his average is when he keeps as opposed to when he just bats. I know Alec Stewart's batting average dipped as soon as he started keeping full time and Sangakarra no longer keeps in tests because his batting is to important.

    It has to have a negative affect on his batting as Boucher would have been ditched years ago otherwise, its already been said that Boucher's test average is no better then ordinary. Its a bit difficult for the SA selectors I just think they will take a look at the English attack and say we need the extra batsman. The English batting can be flakey but the bowling unit is formidable and in these conditions you'll want as much batting in your team as possible.

    Of course if SA lose the first test and Rudolph, Duminy and De Villiers all fail there may be a rethink. Has it happens I've seen a lot of De Villiers's keeping and he is actually very tidy so in some ways its a nice problem to have.
  28. paulhackett

    paulhackett voiced by strother martin

    You're right - whilst they have Philander, Steyn, Morkel, Tahir and Kallis they'll add a batter?

    Just seen a Cricinfo article saying he finds keeping more relaxing than fielding :hmm: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/572131.html and he's kept in Tests before (has a stumping).. hmmph. More, his ODI average as batsman/keeper is 80 odd versus 38 when just a batter! And he's kept to Murali etc. in T20 (he was also interviewed on the field whilst playing with the on field mike). Hmmph.
  29. Teaboy

    Teaboy Tryhard wannabe

    I think that stat is slightly misleading in the sense he had quite a slow start to his international career and the ramping up of his average when he started keeping was probably coincidence. I very much suspect you'd see a similar upturn in his test stats in the second part of his career even though he is not keeping.

    I still think its a big ask, keeping wicket is mentally tiring because you are in the game all the time, keeping for 5 or 6 sessions is a lot different to 50 overs.

    If England were given the choice I bet they'd much rather see some virtual unknown coming in at number 7 rather then De Villiers strolling out.
  30. paulhackett

    paulhackett voiced by strother martin

    Absolutely. He's been punishing as a batsman recently - it seems, I don't know if the stats back it up or I'm just going on the IPL.. :facepalm:

    I can't see England batting for 5 or 6 sessions against their attack? I see more of a Pakistan 2010 series (minus the shenanigans hopefully) of seam up, swing and low scores.. De Villiers coming in at 7 equals nightmare

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