Sorry Phil, I don't want to rile you. I do understand the reasons that motivate you to ride. They seem like the reasons that inspire me to go out with other riders. Also, I based my view on the Leeds CM, that takes place at a time guaranteed to cause maximum annoyance, 5.30 on a Friday. I notice that your group ride at a less confrontational time, so apologies for tarring you with their brush. I also looked at other boards on this site that discussed the London CM, and found lots of entries glorying in how "in your face" some of it was - that's what I find distasteful. And pointless, given the lack of a goal. Finally, you're right that I haven't ridden on a CM. But I have seen it from the other side, as a spectator - maybe you should try that in Leeds or London one day, and see if you think the ride has been positively received by pedestrians and motorists.