Apple WWDC 2010 keynote (iPhone 4 announced)

I couldn't care less about who their parent company is. Their a non issue once they don't reduce the quality of the site

Comparing with television is silly because this conversation is actually a reflection of how old media such as newspapers and television are dying. The way new media is created is different, how its consumed is different and how it makes money is different. Personally I dont really watch freeview and the times I do when the ads come on I'll usually just make a cup of tea or skin up or something

I have friends that are a similar story to sites such as ars and slashdot. It was a bunch of geeks back in the late 90's who started building their sites for fun. The mad things spent every waking moment attempting to improve the sites. Coding sessions til 6 in the morning, dumped by girlfriends the lot. They scrimped and saved and went into a fair amount of personal debt to keep the dream alive.

One day the suits come knocking and offer a chunk of cash that would allow them to continue building and expanding the site and making it as good as they can. Now to the general urban poster this becomes the cardinal sin, taking money from the man, "selling out". If the quality remains the same, who cares, you still are not paying for it. Are you really so precious that one or two advertisements alongside high quality free content offends your morals? Is it really unreasonable for a guy to want to be able to pay his rent and food from producing such good material?

How the majority of other people see it, "wow you mean I can turn my hobby into my job and actually have enough money to have a family and all that good shit!". I don't begrudge the fact that wages,bandwidth and a ton of other stuff needs to be spent to produce a service of high quality. For me personally a few ads to keep the show running is fair enough. I usually just ignore them, and sometimes I might see something that I would have been disappointed that I had missed out on.

Anywaaaay bored of this thread now, heading back to the iPhone/Apple one with a link to O2's offer to upgrade current users to the new iPhone 4....

But tv adverts have already been paid for. By blocking web ads, you're directly denying the site money, as they are paid by the view or click. Personally, i have ads on and blacklist sites with obnoxious ads.

Good.

btw was there any news about the Minis?

I've just been reading about how Facetime is implemented. And it's verrrrry interesting, to me at least.

You make a voice call. It auto-detects that there is an iPhone 4 at the other end, and offers the option of requesting a video call.

Now, how does it do that detection? I'm assuming there is something in 3G (and maybe lesser) protocols that enables the two ends of an established voice call to also exchange data on the side.

This has all sorts of possible uses.

For example... Imagine, during a call, being able to tap "show my location". The person you are speaking to glances at their phone, and can then say "ah yeah, I see where you are... the pub is just a bit further on".

Fascinating. Functionality built on point to point data comms during a call, integrated right *into* the call. Not switching to another app, that you may or may not have, etc etc, but actually being able to do useful stuff, immediately, with the person at the other end, whilst chatting with them.

Hmmm.

Its done over wifi.

No, you're missing the point. I'm not talking about the video call once it's established, I'm talking about the auto detection during the voice call. At this point, there is no internet connectivity between you and the other end.

The call is a connection on a IP network, its not using the towers.

Standard voice calls are not made using the internet. They are made using the towers.

(You're not really following this, are you?)

Can I have the link you are reading please?

" We were confused at first because we expected FaceTime to be its own app, but instead it's baked into the phone app. Here's how it works: if you place a call to someone else with an iPhone 4, it's able to autodetect that they're FaceTime-compatible."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/iphone-4-guide-preview-pricing-availability-and-more/8

"Here's how it works: if you place a call to someone else with an iPhone 4, it's able to autodetect that they're FaceTime-compatible and you're given the option of requesting a video call. "

Your using that as your basis to refute the call is not done over the Wifi, when its been stated wifi is a requirement?

"show the other guy where I am" or "show the other guy a picture" would be very useful indeed. Moreso than video calling IMO.

WiFi has not been stated as a requirement for voice calls.

You make a voice call. The compatibility is detected during the voice call.

It is the detection process I am talking about, not the video.

You really aren't following this. I'm going to give up and wait for someone to make a sensible comment.

voice call doesnt have to be over GSM

It probably would be VOIP over a proprietary protocol that had identification headers.

It's done over WiFi.. for now. It's aimed at networks but they haven't agreed deals with providers. They claim it's only over WiFi for 2010.

Voice calls are going to be done over WiFi?

Yes. It will be technical similar to skype.

Or it could possibly send a packet of connected to the wifi during the call.

No, Facetime/Video calls.

1. You are having a regular cellular voice call

2. Some function of regular 3G cellular calling is used to identify the 2nd party's handset

3. If handset=iphone4 Then ask for a facetime session, on wifi

You're not following.

Here's the process:

You make a voice call.

When the voice call is established, the phone then detects if there's Facetime compatible phone at the other end. If it detects a Facetime compatible phone, it offers the choice to request the video call. At that point - as we know - the video happens over WiFi.

It's not the video I'm talking about.

It's the detection during the voice call.

grit is guessing that voice calls are going to VOIP.

I'm guessing the detection will be done using some kind of GSM data side channel.

Maybe it's neither.

Thank you Crispy. You are exactly the person I was hoping would turn up.

Ah yeah, sorry, I'm drunk and thinking about turfing my lounge....

No probs. I guessed you hadn't read the detail. Glad someone else gets it.

Following on from my original point, about data point-to-point during a voice call, and whether there are more possibilities for that, well whaddya know... I found an Apple Patent from mid 2009 covering exactly that.

This is the most likely, its because doing it over GSM doesn't make sense when sending the request over wifi means a connection is possible immediately, its the best test. There has to be some match making done is it will be apple only.