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£25 Congestion Charge for gas guzzlers is a go

Discussion in 'transport' started by T & P, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again


    What do you do?
  2. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    One reason for congestion is that quite a few roads have been artificillay narrowed by the creation of bus lanes and speed reduction measures thereby reducing their capacity. The problem is bus lanes are useful at certain times ie the times of peak congestion. I think the answer to reducing CO2 emisions by stop start driving is to try to stagger the times of the morning and evening rush. Also I think looking at communal school transport would be a positive thing as well. I'd only have bus lanes working when they are needed and an educational campaign focusing on obesity coupled with safe effective and efficient communal school transport. My own experience of driving in London tells me that at least 1/3rd of traffic on the 07.40 -09.30 slot is school run traffic.

    I don't think the air quality in London is that bad really. West London is where I've got a fair amount of anecotal evidence that air quality is bad due to Heathrow. Its a shame that so many of our goods railheads were sold off for yuppie housing etc as what London and th eUK needs is more long distance freight on the rails and local deliveries done in vehicles under 8 tonnes.
    Its not a blanket pence per mile scheme. The scheme I'm involved in is where I pay less for my car insurance because I sign a legal document guaranteeing that I will do 5000 miles a year or less. This makes me very concious of how much I drive and how I drive. This gives me a cheaper car insurance and means that I use the vehicle less. Its not rocket science and doesnt require an intrusive big brother system and the whole raft of staff to run it.

    If someone needs to travel more 25k+ per year then they would pay extra in the form of a higher insurance premium. The mechanisms are already there to administer this to a large extent without the intrusiveness that is causing resentment not just in the hard core petrol head community.

    If you want to see a situation where a traffic control system has made congestion worse just look at those roads where there is no need for speed cameras but they are put there just for revenue gathering purposes you have a road capable of 70mph traffic slowing down to 40 and bunching up.
  3. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    Export licensing of various goods.
  4. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again

    You're still missing the point.

    There is no spare capacity in the congestion charge area - that's why it was congested.

    You don't know anything about air quality so save your breath (geddit?)

    Limited mileage is a blanket scheme: 5,000 miles = x pounds

    Still no response to the marginal social cost? No suprise there from someone who wants to IMPOSE themselves on others by driving an old rust bucket.

    There is no intrusiveness (which is at the heart of your wobbling and wibbling on a logical policy that addresses the real issues) by having ANPR cameras. You're clearly paranoid.
  5. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again


    i.e. you help sell arms?

    hypocrite.
  6. Mallard

    Mallard Ducking and diving

    I'd have charged more myself. I hope the charge becomes commonplace in towns and cities across the Uk.
  7. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    No not a hypocrite. I refused to work for arms promotion in favour of working for arms control.

    The goods are legally allowed to be exported from the UK and there is a lot of effort made to ensure that UK originated goods do not go to areas where they will increase conflict and adversely affect human rights.

    This is totally different from colluding in restricting your fellow citizens freedom of movement and assisiting in the creation of yet more uncessary surveillance.
  8. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again

    you're quality :D

    guns = freedom! woo!!

    ANPR cameras = oppression! boo!
  9. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    Stop the smears. I didn't say guns equals freedom I said that the arms industry for good or ill is a legal industry but this industry needs to be overseen and controlled to make sure that they don't sell stuff to areas in confilct.
    I didn't say that either. I said there are better ways to reduce congestion (and gave examples) than assembling a whole oppressive surveillance and movement control system.
  10. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again

    maybe we should just give the police guns eh KBJ? They could enforce NO TOLERANCE on school runs..

    thanks for making my day
  11. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    Theonly person wanking themselves into a lather on here over bringing in more control of the citizen is yourself.

    I said that there should be education and communal transport for school runs. Nothing about guns.
  12. Cobbles

    Cobbles Banned Banned

    The citizens of Edinburgh chucked out the concept by 3 to 1.

    That was even though the Cooncilors invited the newt fancier to fly up to Edinburgh to give their plans a boost "don't bother with congestion charging if you're trying to generate revenue 'cause it doesn't" he said - the Cooncil's policy of "this'll generate loads of revenue to be ploughed into painting new bus lanes" dropped straight out of the sky.

    Ken flew home.
  13. bigbry

    bigbry Well-Known Member R.I.P.

    But if it is really about the environment, size for size, newer cars pollute less.
  14. bigbry

    bigbry Well-Known Member R.I.P.

    What's pouvre ? Did you mean pauvre - poor - thought so.
  15. mauvais

    mauvais ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

    Oh yeah, whoops :oops::D
  16. bigbry

    bigbry Well-Known Member R.I.P.

    But adjusting a car's mileage is now (thanks to digital odometers and laptops) one of the easiest things to do. Can you imagine what a business there'll be near MOT time to take the odd 5-10 thousand miles off.
  17. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

  18. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    Judicial Review is always interesting, imo.

    The timing of this is, of course, significant. It Ken wins the Mayoral election, he effectively has an electoral mandate to change the congestion charge into an emission charge and the courts . . well, you'd hope they would always take that fact very much into consideration.
  19. Cobbles

    Cobbles Banned Banned

    It's about time someone had the cojones to curb the whisky guzzling newt fancier's attempts to shove his own prejudices down the throats of the populace.
  20. citydreams

    citydreams on the road again

    Especially as we won our last JR :D

    Sadly though, they are hugely expensive and massively time-consuming.
  21. tommers

    tommers I did it!

    I like it. I think it's "A Good Thing."

    Porsche aren't some kind of freedom fighters, their motives here are purely selfish.
  22. kyser_soze

    kyser_soze Hawking's Angry Eyebrow

    I don't know why they're crying.

    1. If you own a Porsche you can already afford £25 a day to drive it in town
    2. Less cars means more chances to use the phenomenal acceleration on your toy
    3. They can fuck right off.
  23. tommers

    tommers I did it!

    phenomenal acceleration on a cayenne? :hmm:

    agree with the rest though. especially 3.
  24. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    What prejudices?

    Trying to cut down on emissions and journeys by vehicles that are ill designed for city use is prejudice, is it?

    And incidentally, the CC has always been the flagship policy of Livingstone, and Londoners have voted for him. So the only people trying to shove anything down the throats of the populace here are the makers of a luxury car brand, and a few out of towners moaning that they cannot drive their offroad monster trucks into town.
  25. tommers

    tommers I did it!

    hurrah! well said. :D
  26. kyser_soze

    kyser_soze Hawking's Angry Eyebrow

    Ah fuck, I forgot about those 4x4 abortions.
  27. Cobbles

    Cobbles Banned Banned

    So how does a Cayenne generate more Congestion than a Prius or a Boxster then?

    It's not that much larger than a particulate spewing diesel taxi, Ken's favourite means of transport between drinks receptions.
  28. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    Spot on Go Porsche!!! Lets start the fucking fight back.
  29. mauvais

    mauvais ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

    Yeah! Go Porsche! Fight for the... working class, and, err... things...?
  30. KeyboardJockey

    KeyboardJockey Clowns to the Left of me

    How about the right for people of all income levels to travel freely. Especially sensible motorists like me.

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