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£2,000 for your old banger

Discussion in 'transport' started by London_Calling, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6078499.ece

    Imaginative idea?
     
  2. dessiato

    dessiato Galatians 6:10

    Good idea possibly.

    Imaginative, no.

    It has been done here for a few years to get older, less efficient vehicles off the road. Plus of course it helps stimulate car buying. Here the idea was that you would get the money as a government discount against a new car, rather than a cash in hand payment. You had to take your old car to the dealership who would discount the new car, and then take your old car for scrap.

    As a result there are relatively few bangers about. And of course it has meant that the cost of old cars is that of the scrappage payment.
     
  3. Cid

    Cid Degenerate Scum

    The timing belt on my car just went, so I'm hoping this goes through...:D
     
  4. marty21

    marty21 insidious agendas everywhere

    my car is 11 years old so would qualify, I was just thinking of buying another second hand motor eventually, but if there is a reasonably priced new one, and they knock £2000 off, might be tempted by this
     
  5. Oswaldtwistle

    Oswaldtwistle Banned

    What is the cheapest new car out there?
     
  6. marty21

    marty21 insidious agendas everywhere

    [​IMG]

    less than two grand - only in india at the mo though
     
  7. moose

    moose with the voice of Roger Tilling

    It's a good idea as long as people are absolutely clear what it is for - to support fairly wealthy car manufacturers and foreign government investment - and not for any kind of 'green' reasons.

    It's interesting that it doesn't apply to British-made cars only, so in effect people here will be propping up industry in other countries, which is nice. :)
     
  8. XR75

    XR75 DisMember Banned

    Won't this roughly cap the second hand market at £2000?
     
  9. Oswaldtwistle

    Oswaldtwistle Banned


    That is one of my concerns, and Dessiato said it has had just that effect in Portugal.

    Right now, with a bit of effort you can get a perfectly safe, reliable car for 800-1000 pounds. If such cars are worth 2 grand trade in, are they are gonna instead be sold for say 1600 quid to someone about to buy a new car to trade in- thus pricing low income motorists out of the market?

    My other concern is how we pay for this- either more government debt or more fuel duty, and both are too high already....


    I await the details , but this could be a 'double whammy' to low income drivers.
     
  10. Kid_Eternity

    Kid_Eternity "You might be a lord but here comes the king."

    If this had the caveat that the 2 grand only goes to low emission/greener cars this could be quite useful...
     
  11. Roadkill

    Roadkill a clown's heart

    This is neither more nor less than a subsidy to the car industry - and, as moose points out, not only the industry in this country. I don't agree with it at all.
     
  12. ivebeenhigh

    ivebeenhigh Well-Known Member

  13. ethel

    ethel Well-Known Member

    the most carbon that a car procedures is during its manufacture. bloody stupid idea. should be working on getting people out of their cars instead.
     
  14. lostexpectation

    lostexpectation New Member

  15. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    I'm also interested in the environmental side to this because it seems a bit complicated in terms of emissions from 9+ year-old cars, cost of manufacture, recyling, etc, but I haven't seen input from the Greens about this policy yet . . .
     
  16. Roadkill

    Roadkill a clown's heart

    Scrapping a perfectly serviceable car and manufacturing a new one is hardly energy-efficient. Meanwhile, the difference in emissions between a new car and one ten years old isn't that great, and cars older than that come off the roads in increasing numbers anyway as rust and mechanical failure take their toll. I don't think this is an environmental measure at all, even if they try and dress it up as one: it's just designed to get people buying more new cars.

    IMO sarahluv is right: we should be looking at ways of reducing car use, not tinkering about with incentives to buy more.
     
  17. weepiper

    weepiper eb slootly non verbal

    Yep. I can't see a time when I'll be able to spend much more than £1000 on a car without using finance to pay it (and stuff that, frankly) so a potential £2000 trade-in on a car I'd have to spend another £8000 to buy is meaningless to me. And I agree about the possibility of people not selling older secondhand cars as 'drivers' anymore, theyll get flogged for the trade-in market instead and I'll be stuffed!
     
  18. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    They're not scrapped though, at least not in the sense I understand. EU rules mean X% is recycled.

    And I mean the environmental issue is complicated because there are so many considerations, for example an economic depression is great for the environment on face value because of the significant reduction in industry and use of raw materials but people aren't working . . . . so where does the balance lay between creating employment in a depression and the price of a particular economic measure to the environment . . .

    I suppose my point is you may take a different view if you have a wife, three kids, a mortgage you can't pay and you've been one of the tens of thousands laid off in the motor industry.
     
  19. Roadkill

    Roadkill a clown's heart

    That's true, but it still seems incredibly wasteful to take vehicles off the road that have several years' life left in them and replace them with new ones that take a considerable amount of energy to manufacture.

    I'm sure that's true, and I agreed with the government's first aid package to the industry, which consisted mainly of cheap loans to compensate for the freeze on credit. I'd also support a measure of subsidy provided it came with conditions on what it could be used for, especially in terms of producing cleaner and more efficient vehicles. But directly subsidising purchases of new vehicles - and not only those produced in this country - I don't agree with.

    Tbh my other objection is a rather more selfish one. I'm a classic car enthusiast. This isn't going to affect vehicles that already have a following, but I can see it taking a lot of cars off the road that are currently regarded just as 'old bangers' but might in future become collectable. There'll never be all that many - you see few twenty-year-old vehicles on the road as it is - and as such they're hardly a great issue in terms of emissions or road safety, but I this this could end up reducing their numbers still further and making life harder for those who do maintan older cars for a hobby.
     
  20. dessiato

    dessiato Galatians 6:10

    That has been the case here. The other side of this coin is that the price of these more interesting cars has held steady. Additionally it means that some cars which are, perhaps, not classic are considered worth owning as 'hobby'. cars. For example, an ordinary 1980's Volvo 240 is considered a car worth keeping because there are few of them around, Renault 4's are considered classic. This is alongside of more obviously classic cars e.g. TR6, Golf Mk1, etc.
     
  21. Bob_the_lost

    Bob_the_lost Elsewhere

    I like this idea in many ways, as my current car is reaching the end of it's useful life and is nearing scrapping age. I'd probably sell my car on and then get myself a 3k or 4k car instead of a new one, it's a total rippoff.
     
  22. Roadkill

    Roadkill a clown's heart

    But the scheme - according to the Times anyway - only pays out if you buy a new or 'nearly new' vehicle, so unless you can find sufficient cash on top of the subsidy to buy a car less than a couple of years old it probably won't be of any benefit to you.

    It seems to me that it will create an incentive for people to trade in much older cars - say £500 worth - against new ones, perhaps even buying them specially to do so. Not only will that thin out the ranks of potential future classics (which is my selfish concern), but it could well also make it difficult for those on low incomes to buy any car at all.
     
  23. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    Of course, the UK is behind (at least) Germany and France in adopting this policy, so there are more mature models out there for us to consider, albeit more mature by only a few months.
     
  24. moose

    moose with the voice of Roger Tilling

    You probably won't - because in theory they should be against it, which puts them in a funny position. :D They have consistently railed against older cars, but now, with the possibility of millions of them being scrapped at the same time, rather than gradually over time, the environment impact will be significant.
     
  25. moose

    moose with the voice of Roger Tilling

    I think there's a bit of a difference there, because the French and Germans traditionally buy cars from manufacturers in their own country, whereas in the UK, we don't. So rather than supporting our own industry, we'll be supporting theirs, and Japan's and Korea's.
     
  26. Roadkill

    Roadkill a clown's heart

    Some environmental groups support it, some don't. IMO that reflects the fact that the environmental benefits of it are dubious at best, and either way it's a blatant subsidy to an industry the green lobby don't like very much.
     
  27. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    From here:

    "In all, more than 800,000 UK jobs are reliant on carmaking, which makes up a significant proportion of what is left of the country's manufacturing sector."
     
  28. RubyToogood

    RubyToogood Palacetinian

    I wonder what effect it'll have on the ability to get parts from breakers for the older cars that people do hang onto? I suppose it depends on how they're recycled - melted down or broken down for parts...

    Am also wondering if it applies to motorbikes, suspect not. It might make more environmental sense if you could trade in a car against the cost of a scooter or motorbike.
     
  29. moose

    moose with the voice of Roger Tilling

    ...but not for UK companies.
     
  30. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    But the argument is about employment; getting people working, paying taxes, buying good and services . . . You can't discriminate against non-UK registered companies anyway, firstly under EU law, secondly it opens that country up to all kinds of protectionist issues.
     

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